High Vibe Heather

Hi, I'm High Vibe Heather, energetic coach and healer. I created this podcast to inspire you to connect more deeply with your own life. By seeing every set of circumstances you encounter from an energetic perspective, you can take agency and full creative licensing to make your life extraordinary. What are you waiting for? Let's go.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the High Vibe Heather podcast. Today, I am joined by my guest, Yvon Shakrin, who's joining us from Buenos Aires, Argentina. And Yvon is a healer. Would you like to go ahead and introduce yourself?

Yes, thank you, Heather, for having me. I'm Yvon, and yeah, I've been using medicine as a healing methodology for over 10 years, when it wasn't as popular as it is today. And after serving for probably more than 500 ceremonies and everywhere around the world, probably more than 10,000 people, one of the main things that I learned with it is how to heal both with and without psychedelic plants. And so, and another important thing is that I am convinced that doing healing work is the most important thing anybody can be doing for themselves and for the world. We can talk more about that.

Awesome. So, that just makes me so curious. How did you get into this world? Like, what was your beginning? How did you become a medicine facilitator?

It's a great question. A lot of people are like, what is your calling? When did you decide it? Like, this kind of, uh, you know, it's not like you're a child and when they ask you, what do you want to be when you're an adult? You say, I want to serve Medicine, you know. I want to be an astronaut, I want to be a firefighter or something like that. Um, so, I would say life brought me to it. And I only realized that I was a facilitator after I became one. I never decided to do it. Um, I studied engineer and I used to teach math and chemistry for a living, and I used to be an atheist. So, obviously, no, no spirituality, no healing, nothing related to that was part of my life. And then, um, one day, a friend of mine who I trusted very much, uh, said that I must come to an Medicine ceremony and for me to, he invited me to go, and I said, no. And I kept saying no every time he would invite me, and I said no for probably four or five years. Until one day I was like, okay, fine. I'll go there, but this is not my thing. And it's so funny, today when I hear people say this is not my thing, I both understand them so much, and at the same time, there's a part of me that's like, it is your thing, you just don't know it yet. Um, anyway, that's what happened, uh, to me. And I am not going to say that because it happened to me, it is everyone's thing. But it happens that for this specific medicine, it really reflects back at you, you. It's almost like saying, a mirror is not my thing. And, I mean, sure, if you don't like looking at yourself in a mirror, it might not be your thing, but it's still at the end of the day going, you're going to see yourself. And this medicine is so good at showing you the parts of yourself that you became such an expert in ignoring, that ultimately are going to make your life much better. And that's what happened to me, and that's why I say that, uh, I think it is pretty much good for almost everyone, not for everyone, but pretty much, very close to almost everyone. Um, and that night changed my life. So much that I wanted all of my friends to do it, and my family. And I used, uh, I was living in the US at the time. I was living in the US until five days ago. I just moved back to Argentina. Um, for 15 years I lived there. It's weird to not call the US my home right now. And what I did is I brought that shaman who served the medicine to me, to Argentina, so everyone in my family could do it. And everybody had such a transformative experience. So, I started following this man everywhere. Um, organizing ceremonies for him. I did not want to be the facilitator myself. And I've been in so many ceremonies with him that even if I didn't want it, I learned the craft of doing this. And eventually, when he stopped coming, I started serving myself. And then, friends of mine started telling me, hey, can I sit with you tonight? I'm like, uh, sure. If you want, I don't really know what I'm doing, but sure, like, you know, and so my best friends were my guinea pigs in a way. And it was still not my intention. Until I started bringing friends, and the friends started bringing friends. People were telling me things like, I sat with 10, 15 shamans, and my experience with you was the best one I ever had. I was like, wow, like, in which world does that make any sense? But I think it's because maybe from the scientific background, I was always extremely diligent with the dosing, and with knowing where people were at, and I always wanted to make sure that they had a good experience, so I spent a lot of time with them talking ahead of time. A lot of things that in traditional ceremonies are not a common thing. And one day, I realized, hey, I've been doing this for some time now. So, that's why I say like I never chose it. At some point I realized I started doing it. So, that's when I decided to take formal training, because I was like, a lot of people are coming now. I think I owe it to them to have formal training. And so, after that I did a lot of training in a lot of different countries, and, uh, yeah, 10 year later, 10 years later, here I am.

Wow. So, it sounds like you kind of just stepped into a role that was needed, not really intentionally, but because you had such a transformative experience with it yourself, and your background in science, made you really well suited for creating an atmosphere that made people feel safe.

Mhm. Yeah, and I would, that's true. And I would say that the other advantage that I carried is that because it was such an important experience for me, I was really invested in people's experience. So, if anything would go wrong or would go too challenging or whatever it is, I would like, stick with the person and call them for many days and until they would be okay and help them process their experience and, so, there was a lot of love, and it continues to be a lot of like genuine love for the craft and, I never stepped into it because, you know, one thing that I've seen throughout this past decade is how many people want to be there because they want to be the person in power or the one who gets the attention or, I want to be the wise one, or whatever the other intentions are. And, I did not start like that. I started serving this with my friends, not asking for money, not asking for anything, just out of, I, it would be such an honor for me in that moment to be like, you really want to drink this with me? I'm going to do my best to make sure that whatever you experience is the best that it is available. I'll care for you, I'll care for your dose, I'll care for your aftercare. I'll spend all night with you if I have to. And so, I would say, and that was a lot of it was the pure naivete. I was just naive. And I would say that played in my favor.

Yeah, it wasn't ego driven. It was coming from a place of truly loving the medicine and the transformation that it could bring for people. That's really beautiful. And I've never actually sat with Medicine myself, but I've know lots of people who have, and I've heard it described as like the mother. Is that something that you're familiar with as well?

Oh, yeah. And something that's pretty incredible about that is that in my very first time, okay, so I come to this experience knowing absolutely nothing. I've done zero research. I found out the day before. So, I told you my friend kept telling me to come, and the last time, when I finally said yes, he said, hey, it's happening tomorrow. So, I only found out a day ahead. I did zero research. I came in with no preparation at all. So, I did not know people called her mother at all. I did not know anything. I didn't even know that you needed a bucket to to come with a bucket so that you could, uh, vomit in there. That's how little I knew. And, yet, during the experience, one of the things that I was screaming out loud, as I found out later how sensitive I am in comparison to other people. So, when for somebody to have a very intense experience, they might need five times as much as I did. And so, when they dosed me, like anybody else, I was severely overdosed because my level of sensitivity is too high. So, I was screaming a lot, and it was hard, but it was extremely beautiful. And one of the things that I was screaming was, Medicine, you're my mother. But I was not, I didn't know any of this. Like, you know, you know more now than what I knew back then. I didn't know people called her mother. And I was like, you're my mother, you're my mother. And I, I remember, even though it's been more than a decade ago, that I was experiencing such a very intense motherly energy, if you will. Even though back then as an atheist, I didn't know what that meant, but it was just coming out of me. And so, that's, I find it fascinating that so many people call her the mother, and, uh, even, even including people who don't know that, come to the experience. Today I understand it perfectly. When you go through the experience, you do feel that all of the parts in which your mom couldn't really take care of you, that's where Medicine steps in. So, she becomes in a way, the mother that you didn't have or feels in for the parts that your mother has, uh, not been able to care for you in the ways in which you precisely needed it.

It sounds very powerful. It's something that has been presented to me a number of times, and I've just, I think I've had a fear of it because of the whole purging situation and just the unknown of of the experience. It sounds like it's a very intense kind of experience where, um, a lot of stuff comes up to be to be sat with and reviewed. And I would imagine that the integration period afterwards is really important. So, the fact that you actually provide that for people after they sit with you is really phenomenal because a lot of people that I've talked to who have gone through that experience have not had somebody help them process the experience afterwards. And that part kind of scares me because I'm like, well, what if stuff comes up that you're not able to really make sense of? What do you think about that?

Well, you are completely right. That's why I'm saying, you definitely know more today than what I used to know when I started. I didn't even know what the word integration meant. And today I consider it by far the most important aspect of not only the ceremony, but healing work. Because the point of the ceremony is not what happens there, but how you apply it in your everyday life. If the experience dies with the experience or once you leave home, there's not much of a point to it. And it's true that most ceremonies don't have an integration protocol. And at first I thought, oh, that's messed up or, oh, how could that be? But later on I understood how why that is so prevalent. And the reason is because these medicines have been served in community. So, there wasn't a need for an integration protocol. If you think about it, you are, these medicines have been served for over 5 to 10,000 years, and they were served in a community of indigenous people. And you had your elders, and you had everybody else, and you were there. So, you didn't really go to a place, drink Medicine, and then fly back home where no one knows what that is, and somebody might judge you, your friends might be like, you did what? Or you you don't want to tell your parents or like all of these things, and then you are left alone to integrate the experience. You are there, you drink, and then next day, you are there with everyone. Everyone understands what you did. You're not flying anywhere back. You are supported by your own community, right? So, the integration is already in a, you know, integrated into the into the community, right? And so, that's why I believe that they don't, in the jungle, they don't teach an integration protocol because they don't know what that is, they don't need it. Um, now, when you serve in the West, that is needed. However, most people who serve in the West have learned directly from people in the jungle, where these medicines come from. And so, people in the jungle are going to tell, um, Westerners, this is how you do it, which makes sense for them, right? Um, they are, they are not going to tell you to you about childhood trauma or psychology. They're not going to talk to you about inner child or the parts of you that are split and a part of you is feeling one thing or the other. They're not going to talk to you about healing work and how healing is, uh, how wounding is a consequence of unprocessed emotions. Um, like all of these things, they are not part of who they are, and that's okay. But it needs to be adapted if we're going to be serving in the West. And integration and all of the things that I mentioned and much more are important aspects of it. So, yes, integration, extremely important. I think it's not given in a lot of ceremonies because, yeah, it's not part of the tradition. And a lot of people are just serving the way the tradition says without questioning. One of the most common criticisms I get is that I don't follow the tradition. But it's not something that I do out of rebellion or because I don't care. I've been in the tradition, I served like in the tradition for a while, but because I cared so much for the participant, the modifications I started making were things that felt natural for a Westerner, also part of the feedback that I would receive. And with time I realized, oh, uh, you know, at first I was having maybe a little bit of an imposter syndrome. But eventually I was like, well, wait a minute. This really, really worked. Why shouldn't I apply it? Because the tradition says so. Wait a minute. Where is the tradition coming from? It's coming from this place, this time? No, it's coming from 10,000 years ago in the jungle. Do we know those people? No. So, that's when I started questioning it and adapting it to the way in which the Western mindset, uh, is. And integration is a huge part of it. So, whoever's listening, please to your audience, even to you, Heather, if you ever end up in an Medicine ceremony, I would ask if they have an integration protocol because it is a key aspect, if not the most important aspect of the success of a ceremony.

Yeah, I would imagine. And it's actually really great that you recognized that gap and you were able to address the needs of the modern people who are not in these indigenous cultures, but are still like wanting to have the healing impacts of the medicine. And it's too bad that they go off onto these experiences and have these like breakthrough kind of ceremonies and then come home and kind of fall apart because they don't know how to make it impact the rest of their lives. And it's, I don't know, maybe causing more fragments for them.

Yeah, I can give you a quick example of one of the most common integration, uh, struggles for the Western person. And that is, they leave the ceremony feeling excited, inspired, conversion of, I am fully healed now. I'm done. Like, especially if it's their first time, that is a very ungrounded, um, that's an, that's an ungrounded, uh, state of being. And a very understandable one. I am not criticizing it. I'm just saying this is a very common way of, because it is very powerful, and it is very inspiring, and you saw all the things you've done wrong, and all the things that you've done right, and what you should change, and what, who you should forgive, and all of these things. So, you come home like ready to live your, your new life, right? Then, some time passes, the inspiration goes away. You are not supported by a community of people who understand you. Um, you may be finally addressed your alcoholism or depression in a weekend, but everything around you in your life is a consequence of that. So, all of your friends drink because you were a drinker, and you hang out a lot in bars, and so you made a lot of friends in bars. So, everybody's inviting you to drink or to go watch the game, and there's like, there's alcohol there. Um, or you were depressed, and so all of the friends that you made were people who match in a way that depression, like, you name it, right? Or people who were okay, uh, violating your boundaries because you didn't have them at all, and then that's what you saw in your experience. So, anyway, what I'm saying is like, you made, you created a life for years or decades. And in one weekend, you might realize that a lot of things are not matching the more joyful version of yourself. But everything else is pushing on the opposite direction. And so, a lot of people go back home inspired, and then at some point, whether it is a week, a month, maybe six months, doesn't matter, they crash. They crash against the, oh, no, I'm not as healed as I thought. Oh, no, I thought I was going to be done drinking, but I find myself drinking again. And so, the thought that shows up after that is, what I did wasn't real. Healing wasn't real. It was an illusion. It was a lie. Um, it's not what I thought it was. So, it could even discourage people from continuing doing healing work. Whereas an integration protocol would tell the person ahead of time, listen, everything I'm telling to you right now, this is going to happen, and these are the reasons. When that happens, know that it is okay. It's not that there's anything wrong with you or that the healing wasn't real. It's just that you are being unsupported in all of these ways. So, when it comes, it's not a surprise anymore. And in a way they are like, okay, this is what they told me it was going to happen. And these are the steps to take when that happens, right? So, that's a very, very short example. An integration protocol is a lot longer, yeah.

Yeah, like you help prepare them to the fact that they have changed, but their life circumstances haven't changed. And so, they need to take those steps to catch up their life circumstances to match their new reality. And until that happens, there's going to be this mismatch that either they're going to return to that old reality or make their old reality new. It's like they, they have to make that alignment happen one way or another. And otherwise, they'll just go right back because if their whole life, their whole influence is built on something that's not supporting their growth and healing, then,

It doesn't necessarily mean that they will fall back. They for sure, at the very least, will feel something unexpectedly challenging. Like, even if they are like, no, I told myself I was not going to drink again, then they are now faced with, um, a sense of not belonging with their friends, that they don't connect with their friends, and so they might start feeling lonely, right? And then they might do other things to compensate for that. So, there is a way to prepare people for all of that, so that that is an exciting challenge, rather than an unpleasant surprise.

So, you had mentioned that you've done, you know, these Medicine ceremonies, served the medicine for, uh, 10, 15 years, but now you're starting to, uh, help people have similar experiences of healing and transformation without using medicine. Uh, what prompted or motivated you to want to start to help people experience healing without the medicine?

Good question. I love this question because it's so in line with where I have been lately. And where I have been lately is in feeling that I want to live in a world that is a lot more beautiful. And with a lot more beautiful, I don't mean it in a utopian way, but more in a way that I know it is available to us. And the way in which I've seen that world become closer to truth, to be, to be real, is when people do healing work. And I started this podcast saying that that's the most important thing we can do. And that's because when people do healing work, a lot of the pain that they received from their parents and their peers, they stop giving it to others, stopping also the cycle of pain where they will be giving it to others. A lot of people start forgiving others and themselves. A lot of people start releasing a lot of shame, which is an emotion that prevents you from exploring parts of you that actually created pain in you and others. And so, basically, all of the things, when when people say, I want wars to stop, I want people to be kinder to each other. I want people to love themselves and others more. All of that and many, many other things that we say every day is achieved with only one thing, and that is by doing healing work, by healing the parts of yourself, the only parts of yourself that are creating those things that we don't want to see are the parts of yourself that are wounded. Some of them you acquired directly through your parents, some of them through other experiences in life. So, doing healing work, really, there is is the most important thing that we could be doing because we are constantly wanting to live in that world, all of us. And so, but to go to your question, I realized that ceremonies are amazing for those who are present. And they do a lot of healing in from a very short amount of time. But at the end of the day, it's still 20 or 25 people at a time. And that is not fast enough for me. I understand the butterfly effect. In 500 years, maybe the effects are going to be incredible and all of this is, you know, great. Like, that's great too. But I'm alive now, and I want to live in a, in a more beautiful world. So, knowing that not everybody will be drinking plant that is illegal in a lot of places, that even in those places that is not illegal, not everybody has access to. And even if everybody wanted to drink it, I don't know if there's enough enough Medicine to serve seven billion people. I thought there must be, and I think maybe this is the engineering mind. I was like, there has to be a solution. There has to be a way to engineer this that allows the whole world to heal. And I understood that what these plants do, they don't heal you, they teach you ways to heal yourself. They teach you, and they give you a better understanding of what compassion and self-forgiveness is. But once you learn it, you can apply it every day. You don't have to drink a plant to forgive. You might need to drink it to learn that forgiveness is your own freedom. You know, a lot of people are like, they don't deserve my forgiveness. Fine. You deserve your, your forgiveness, right? So, that's something that somebody might realize in a journey. But once they realize it, that knowledge stays with them. Out of all the hundreds of ceremonies I've done, I acquired a lot of these concepts and and understanding how the mind works, so that people can start doing that healing work without the need of plants. And by doing that, I think possibilities are endless. You can reach the whole world, um, by just talking and teaching how to do it, which is why I started a YouTube channel recently, so that I could teach all the things that I learned and help as many people as will see them, uh, to to do healing work.

So, doing the healing work with the medicine, you said is is much faster. So, it kind of accelerates what can be done. But the same type of work can be done without the medicine, it just takes more time. Is that what you're saying?

It's interesting. Yes, at first, and then no later. So, once you learn the things that the plants teach you, it is your task to apply them every day. And so, this is the concept of healing being a lifelong, everyday practice. You practice healing every day. And there's many ways to do that. From your morning meditation to, uh, the mindset that you have when a challenge arises, from the most minuscule challenge, like, you almost caught the bus and the bus left, and you are like left there and you're going to be late now. How you react in those moments? Do you allow yourself to feel the strong emotions that might arise? What do you do with them? Do you do you learn how to hold yourself? Those moments are moments where you can practice healing work. To even bigger challenges, like, if you, you know, your partner cheated on you or you lost a loved one. There's plenty of opportunities every day to practice healing work, and they are all needed in order for us to become whole and to, uh, live, uh, in a, in a live a life that is much more pleasant, a life that we are all really happy to be living. Think about how many people are medicated for depression and anxiety. All of that would be gone. And I am hoping to create a world where we get closer to that place.

So, without the medicine then, using other methods of healing, what specifically do you like to use to help people in their evolution, in their journey of healing?

So, I, I did mention already a few. There's much more. Wounding is a simple consequence of an emotion going unprocessed. So, for example, if my dad, I'm five years old, my dad grounds me. If I'm, if in that moment, I am able to process whatever emotions show up, let's say, anger, let's say, hopelessness, let's say, frustration. All of these are, you know, common emotions that could show up. If I can process them, then even though that is a negative experience, it's not necessarily traumatic. And there is no wound around it. But the most common thing is that we can't process it. Because in order to process an emotion, we need to have the right environment for it. And that means the right emotional maturity, that's one of them. Understand that we are actually feeling anger and frustration and whatever else I said. Um, the right support. So, as my father grounds me, then my mom comes and holds me and says, it's okay that you're feeling the things that you're feeling, it's okay to scream, it's okay to throw a tantrum, it's okay to feel what you're, like, all of the, like, permission to feel. The right environment, uh, the right support, the right emotional maturity. If those things are not present, that emotion goes unprocessed. That anger goes unprocessed. You feel anger, but you keep it to yourself. Or you feel frustration, and maybe you try to express it, and you're like, meh. And then your dad is like, oh, you don't talk to your father like that. Now it's going to be you're grounded for three days instead of one day. And so, what you learn is that your frustration and your anger are dangerous to yourself. And there is something that happens in that moment where you learn, I should not feel these feelings. It's unconscious, and and it's automatic. You're not thinking that, but that's the process that happens. And so, what happens? Not only your anger and your frustration went unprocessed. Now you learn that you shouldn't feel anger and frustration in the future either. So, anytime you feel frustration and anger, um, there is a part of it that's going to be kept inside. Because a part of you is in survival mode, and this is what we call the inner child. Even though you might be 25 or 40, when that situation arises, a part of you might automatically contract, and there is your adult self that says, shouldn't be contracting. This is not a big deal. It's just like the, uh, the cashier at the supermarket saying something I don't like to me. But the inner child is experiencing it as the original wound. And so, all of these emotions are piling up and piling up and piling up, and wounding you and wounding you and wounding you, and we do everything we can to avoid feeling them, which becomes part of our personality. And a lot of the things that we do are going to be as a consequence of that. And then because we are hurt, it's going to hurt others. Uh, there's no way around it. And so, you ask me what is the most, one of the things that I like to give people outside of ceremony is a tool for them to process their emotions. And to do that, you need to give the first three things that I was mentioning at first. You need to give them the right environment. You need to let them know that they already have the emotional maturity to process them. Because until you let them know and bring this up to the forefront of their awareness, it is their inner child that's going to be in charge without them noticing it. And then last, the proper environment. So, holding them, giving them permission, you know, you have no idea how many times I've heard somebody be like, is it really okay that I scream? And I, uh-huh. They're like, but, but, but what's like, if I scream, like, you know, there's like this like, am I going to be okay? Is people, like, are people going to, all of that is their inner child like just going berserk, right? And I'm like, yes, it's okay. Please scream. I will scream with you if you want. Let's celebrate, like, this is your healing, and you are allowed. And eventually, a lot of people have such a hard time, and eventually, like, it comes out, and it's amazing. Um, it's really, really beautiful, you know, to see that process happening. And then they feel absolutely incredible. And you can see that a part of them is healing because they are finally processing unprocessed emotions. Unprocessed emotions wounded, processing emotions healed. I think, at least for now, you probably get the point.

So, you like actually hold the space for them so that you're kind of doing the reparenting process with them as they're experiencing the emotions. That's really interesting. I've more looked at it from the perspective of like, we learn to reparent ourselves, and we learn how to hold that space for ourselves and gives our give ourselves that permission. But I can see how that would be really helpful for people who need kind of like that bridge to learn how to do that by being that kind of like stand-in to just teach them the process so that going forward, they can do that on their own. So, that's really fascinating that you, um, act in that way to help them move through that.

Well, imagine you're in a new city, right? Yeah. And at first you have no idea where to go. You have a a tour guide. They, he or she shows you the best places in town, how to get there. And then eventually you're like, okay, I don't need you anymore. I can go there by myself. So, this is very similar. A lot of people, the idea of self-reparenting, they don't understand it at all. If you were to talk to them about it, they would maybe understand it theoretically, but they have no idea how to do it because the moment that you're telling, like, you give them path to their emotions, their inner child is going to show up, and the inner child is going to be stronger than than them because they have not developed the skill yet. So, the inner child is going to be like, no, I can't scream here. No, I am not supposed to feel anger or whatever that is. So, by being there for them in that moment, you're teaching them something that then, yes, exactly as you said, the next step after that is for them to do it themselves. And that is also part of your, what I was saying about everyday healing. Once you learn, once you learn that that's okay, and you, whether you have no idea how many people, like, had to walk through that process way more than what I thought it was needed. I was like, oh, you do it once, then they learn. Not at all. Like, some your pathways need to be reinforced over and over and over again until that neuro pathway is stronger than the old one that says, anger is not an okay emotion. Then, they can do it themselves. But I'm glad you brought it up because that's also part of the, you know, process of doing healing for yourself every day.

Yeah, that's really cool. Um, so would you facilitate this like in person or is it something you do like virtually? How do you work with people in that way?

Both. Both, okay. So, emotional processing is one of your tools, teaching people how to actually just be with their emotions and do that inner child repair work. What are some of the other ways that you like to work with people to help them heal?

A lot of times is helping them understand what's going on with them. Okay. So, a lot of times people are like, I don't know what's going on with me. I'm depressed and I have no idea. What's happening? It's not about processing an emotion here. It's about figuring out what's really happening with them. Um, and so, the concept of a blind spot, right? In the car. It doesn't matter what's your angle of the mirror. There is a little spot right there at the right place where you cannot see a car coming. Even if you're the best driver in the world. You are the champion of Formula One. The blind spot, you're not going to be able to see it. No matter how well you drive. So, this is why everybody, I believe, needs somebody else that is skillful enough to mirror back at people their own blind spots. Including myself. And I'm not even saying I'm I'm the best in the world or anything like that. I'm saying, even the best in the world, whoever's the best emotional processor in the universe, needs somebody who will reflect back at them because your blind spots hide in those places where your wounds, like, they hide at the eye of the tornado. You know, it's like, you cannot see it. And so, sometimes people say back, I have a lot of friends that are really good at this too, and from which I learned from, and peers and, and sometimes when I'm struggling, in the moment of struggle, I feel I forgot everything I'm telling you about healing work. I become the child again. I become the, uh, you know, and, and sometimes I call a few friends, and then they say things that to me that I've said a million times, but just from hearing it from them or that specific perspective that they hold, that very specific taste of who they are, it like, yeah, it just helps, it helps a lot. So, processing emotions is one thing, but mirror work is another for me to reflect back at them where they are at or to help, sometimes people feel so confused about something that to me is very obvious, right? So, imagine you're a an architect, and somebody shows you a massive blueprint of a building, you will see it and understand immediately what that is. But if you show it to someone who's never seen, um, an AutoCAD drawing, all they'll see is a bunch of lines. And so, this is the, and for the architect it might be the simplest house ever. So, this is the same. Um, sometimes people are really confused about what's going on with them, but I've seen enough, uh, blueprints that for me it's just very simple. So, that is also part of what I do.

At what point did you leave the engineering world to like go into spirituality and becoming a healer more full-time? Or did you leave the like, are you trying to do both? What's that look like for you?

Yeah, so engineering, I left when I left Argentina to move to the US. Okay. And when I got there, I've always also been a musician since I'm six. So, when I got to the US, I had the chance of playing instruments that weren't available here, and meeting so many musicians and, and so I dove into music right away. And, and I started an eBay business selling musical instruments. So, I kind of left the math and everything behind in Argentina. And then, yeah, several years later, medicine work found me. What has not left me is my engineering mind. So, I still see everything through, or a lot through that very like logical way of experiencing things, including healing work and how to process emotions. It's a, it's a big blend. I'm, I'm very, very grateful to my engineering background because I don't know, somehow I feel like applying that mindset to healing work is, it works great.

Because it lends you to developing a process around it. It's a logical lens where it's like, okay, I can see how there's steps to follow, and if we follow these steps, we're going to get from point A to point B. And it kind of blends the the creative nature of healing with a logical process to follow. So, yeah, that's really cool. So, what brought you to the US then?

Well, a combination of things. I would say a very a big desire to leave Argentina because the economical situation here has been always very unstable. And talking about wounding, I would say I was wounded by the way in which this country operates. Uh, I, I grew up with a lot of fear about the future, and that you listen to it everywhere. Um, from things that your parents go through or every single dinner table here is always talking about the ways in which this country doesn't work and how no one can make it to the end of the month and every single person I know that had a big company lost it at some point. And not because of their own negligence, but because of the instability of the country. Including my dad. My dad had a huge advertising company, so big that in the US that company would never die. It would be impossible. You could not take a business like that into bankruptcy in the US. You would have to try, actually. And in Argentina, everything went, he lost it in basically a day because one day there was something called hyperinflation here where the prices were changing several times a day. And so, everybody who owed, uh, money to him for work that he has done, all of a sudden, they owed him the same amount of money in terms of number, but that money was what it used to be able to buy a house, you could now buy a loaf of bread for the same number. Like, when I'm talking about hyperinflation, I'm talking about many, many, many zeros where what used to get you a car, now got you a candy, you know, and so, he went out of business. Um, and I grew up seeing that. My uncle had a big textile factory. He went out of business. And not because of his negligence. And everybody I know has gone out of business because of the instability of the country. So, I, I grew up feeling so afraid and, and so discouraged to start anything, any any business or anything because I was like, what's the point if it's going to fail no matter if I'm the best at it? And so, I had, I grew up with that fear and desire to leave. And I did leave, but I went to Europe, to Spain because we shared the same language. And I was like, well, that's, you know, I didn't speak English. So, I was like, I'll, I'll be here in Spain and right away I met who, uh, who ended up becoming my wife, who is from the US. So, what brought me to the US is a combination of fear and a woman.

Wow. Yeah, I would imagine growing up in that culture, it would create a lot of despondency in people where they just didn't have any motivation to go out and and create or make something of themselves for fear that it would all be taken away.

And a lot of people here are accustomed to that. They have accustomed is one way of saying it. And I think there is a more real way of saying it, which is they are, they've not surrendered to it. Surrender is a positive word. Surrender is something that you consciously like, you know, it's a form of trust in the universe where you're like, I surrender to this experience. But there's a dark side of surrender. And I'm trying to find a word. It's like being defeated. It's like, um, so a lot of people here, they, they, I would, they would say that they are used to their country, but I would say they have been defeated by the country. And so, they accepted it because they have no choice, not from a, I trust, therefore I surrender, but more like, I have no choice. And so, I must get used to it. And that is in a way a form of numbing. A lot of people here don't really feel the pain that they are actually experiencing anymore. They experience it, but they are not feeling it. And so, they got used to it. And they live with it. And it wasn't anything that I was willing to accept. For me, thankfully, maybe it happened early in life to me, that I was still very connected to what I was experiencing. And I was like, I'm not going to allow this in my life. And I need to leave. Like, there's no other solution for me.

With returning, is part of your hope to help the people of Argentina start to heal?

I would love for that to be so romantic and beautiful, but no. It's, it has nothing to do with that. Okay. Um, yeah, I, I'm not franchised for money. So, I don't, and I don't make my my money in the in Argentina. So, that's one thing. And the other is because the medical system here works really well. Uh, my wife and I now are in a process where we're doing a fertility treatment. So, we're trying to conceive, and if a baby comes, it's better to raise it here, at least for the first few years. So, we're here mostly because of the medical system, which is one of the really great things we have here. Um, and, and we'll probably be here for a few years and then see what's next. If we stay or if we go back to the US or, who knows, maybe we'll end up in some new place, wherever it calls us and feels right to us in that moment. So, it's, it's selfish. It's not selfless, and I'm not going to pretend that it is. Okay. Well, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, there is a real like material part of life where we have to find a way to meet our needs. So, if that's what you need to do to to do that, then that makes a lot of sense. And your life is going to continue to unfold in a lot of different adventurous ways.

It has definitely not been boring one. It's been very eventful. I would say that being an Medicine facilitator, you get to see things that you would have never in your life imagined you would see. I would say I saw it all. And there's always a new ceremony that surprises me again.

You'll continue to serve Medicine at some point? I actually still continue. Okay. Okay. Not as often, but I do continue probably four or five times a year. Okay. So, my plan is to keep flying back to the US. Um, I also serve in Europe. I used to serve in Russia, and I went to Russia many, many, many times and Ukraine as well. And, and until going to Russia stopped being safe. Yeah, and that was also a really interesting period of my life. Because serving in Russia was such a unique, it was so unique. People are so different. I ended up learning Russian, and doing the ceremonies in Russian and, there was a moment where I was like, I am serving Medicine in Russian. How did this happen? Like, so many times I was like, how is this even happening? Like, who am I? Like, I don't recognize myself. How is this part of my life? And so, I, those moments to me are precious. And I'm sure that these kind of moments, they apply to everybody in a way. Not everybody's going to be serving Medicine in Russian, but that there are moments in your life where you just wonder, how did life take you here? You don't feel like you did it. It was life who brought you there. Yeah. And I think if I were to take something out of this for your audience would be that, I don't know, pay it, it's good to pay attention to those moments where you're like, how did life bring me to this precise moment? How is this even happening right now? Because I find that to be one of the things that make life so curious and adventurous and at the end of the day, beautiful and exciting.

Yeah, truly. Well, if people are interested in working with you in any capacity, how can they find you?

So, there's two ways. If they want to work directly with me, they can go to my website, YvonChakrin.com. And then, another place that I like to redirect people to is to my YouTube channel. Because as I mentioned, even though I am not selflessly doing healing work in Argentina, I am selflessly, uh, trying to bring healing work and and knowledge to the whole world. And I am not making anything out of it. I'm not making money, I don't care for likes or fame or any of that. I really want the world to start healing. So, if you go to my YouTube channel, every single week I put out a video that's professionally recorded and professionally edited. Like, it's, it's, it's nice. It's well made. I talk about everything. Plants, no plants, emotions, inner child, reparenting yourself, uh, fear, shame, this, that, um, I started making podcasts with lots of things related to healing. And so, I, I'm sure you'll enjoy it if if you're interested in the topic. So, oh, so that is, uh, youtube.com/ at YvonChakrin. Or you can probably just put YvonChakrin in the YouTube search box. Okay. Awesome. I will definitely link all of that so people can find you. And is there any last, uh, words that you want to leave us with?

I guess I want to say for those who resonate with the idea of healing work being so important, but also feel somewhat hopeless about the state of the world, is that, yes, I feel you. I am there with you. I feel that too. For moments I also feel hopeless. For moments I also feel that no matter what I do, it's not going to matter. And those moments are moments where it is your pain who is talking, and it's not really your truth. And so, when I, when those moments pass, first of all, I allow those moments to be here, when they arise. When those moments pass, and then truth shows up on the other side. I know that there is more people interested in healing work than what we used to have. There's more people talking about it. There is a podcast like this one right now, who used to not be there. Uh, and many more like it. We're not a drop, you know, in the sun. A drop of water in the sun trying to put out the sun. There's, there's many more drops. Yes, not enough yet to put out the sun. But the tendency is for people to be more interested in it. And I think there is a lot of really good stuff happening. And most importantly is that we're moving more and more in the direction of caring about these things. This podcast, to many others, to so many resources that there. So, we still have a lot to go, but my heart tells me that we are not in a place that deserves hopelessness, but it deserves much more truth from our hearts and and to to do the healing work that it is for each one to do. So, I feel you, and there is light, there is light in front of us.

Thank you. That was really lovely. I enjoyed our conversation and appreciate your time today.

Thank you, Heather. I appreciate it. And I enjoyed it very much too. Thank you for this space. Uh, thank you for giving space for healing content to be out there.

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