The KAJ Masterclass LIVE

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welcome to this very special edition of the KJ Master Class live the show which ensures that you profit from your time spent here with experts either through their industry insights information or simply learning from them and today we have Ivan Chron he is an educator uh coach in healing human relations and conscious leadership welcome to the show Ian thank you very much AJ it's a pleasure to be here you are welcome welcome to the show Welcome to India in this online form and I'm sure not just in India but a lot of people across the

globe will benefit from what we are going to talk right now we'll be talking about how one can Bridge science and spirituality that we will be learning about that and uh but before that Ian just want to understand from you a bit about your journey so that people can understand who you are who they are listening to and learn a bit from your journey itself you have moved from engineering to being a spiritual guide yes and this sounds like I left one to become the other and in reality I ended up uh I never left the engineer

mentality and I think that is part of in a way the gift that I ended up bringing to the world the part of my journey that's relevant is that I used to be a complete atheist uh fully science-based person I used to teach math and chemistry studied engineering so fully fully sciency person um my parents were atheist they raised me atheists and um I was very strongly attached to that identity and then one day uh something some some really beautiful and Powerful events happened in my life that kind of woke me up to in a way how ridiculous

that can be to believe that you know more that the magnificence of this whole universe and and so I started diving much deeper into spirituality but in that Journey because I never left my my engineering mind is always with me uh I realize that one of the reasons why atheism exists is because it's like a push back to the spirituality that it is imposed on us and so um in a way it felt like it was within my my capacity to start bridging these two worlds I started seeing that a lot of the things that spiritual people

talk about is in a way the same thing that science people are talking about it's just that they are using different lenses or different ways of explaining those things and when I started putting them together something really magical and beautiful happened which is everybody started relating everybody felt that I was talking to them whether they were a scientist or a spiritual person you know usually if you go to a meditation class or a spiritual event most of the sciencey people if they are especially if they are very much on that side uh they are not going to feel that

that's for them or the other way around if you go to a very science-based uh event all the spiritual people might not feel that that's really speaking to them and for me it became really important to feel that when you are talking especially around healing work so with healing work I mean ways in which one gets to overcome our own Trauma from childhood um or how to become a better person you know all all of the things that we are all aspiring to be um these are ways of doing healing work it is imperative that we speak about it from

both places um on the psychological and Sciences side they talk about neuro receptors and neuroc mystry and it's all good and important but that's not going to bring upon healing and on the spiritual side people talk about connecting with oneself and all of these things but it lives it lives out all of these other people so um my journey has lately been about how can I make everybody feel that I am talking to them and um I think that's a relevant aspect of um my my work lately right right so how how how are you

making sure uh about this part you talked about that you are talking to them I help us understand this part for the audience yeah um I think one way is so for those of you who don't know me I my main the main thing that I do is I work with a medicine or psychedelic plants that help people dive deep into their subconscious mind where all their trauma is stored where their fears are stored where the belief systems um belief systems that might have been very useful at some point in their life but they're not useful anymore um and that

belief system needs to go so that a new one that is more updated with who you are today gets in place um and in this environment in the environment of medicine where people come to do deep meaningful healing work um I would say that the majority of the practitioners or facilitators like I am um approach it fully from the spiritual side so for example you are asking for examples to understand it better people might come um to um a ceremony with these plants and the facilitator would be will say things like let's connect with our

Spirits Let's uh we're going to release our bad energies we're going to release the Demons Inside of us and you know it it's going to a lot of this kind of language is spoken now thanks to the fact that I come from an atheist and Science Background I know that every time that I ended up in a place like that I felt that the the facilitator was not really talking to me and if I would have come and said but well what about this neuro receptor what about what what if these energies that you're talking

about are not real right this this person would not really connect with me and I wouldn't connect with them um and then I also notice that on the other side there are a lot of the mental health which is my industry um is approached fully from um the neurochemical side and you know at the end of the day like nobody really understands the depth of the Mind very well and so by bridging it means that as I am speaking as I am talking about how to heal the mind as I'm talking about childhood trauma I can put myself

in the position of these two kinds of people and feel is this person really speaking to me and throughout the years I came up with ways in which everybody feels most importantly that healing work is for them so that you can go to a ceremony with plants or without plant there's many ways to to do healing work um whether you have a tendency more towards spirituality or science right Ian right so you are not a doctor correct me anywhere if you if there any additional information is you I don't know if you are a therapist so

you are calling yourself uh as someone you know coach in healing so how should people understand it because they have to understand it from some definition point of view maybe in your part of the world from this part of the world somebody wants to understand how should they understand in case they want to understand who exactly you are and what they can take your help in great question so correct I am not a doctor and I am not a licensed therapist but um I do a lot of the work that licensed therapists do and partially is because when I started

working with these plants these plants make you experience what a license therapist reads in the books so while a therapist learns about the Mind by reading about it and where you know how trauma happens how to heal it what to do what not to do what to say to a person that's in in a place of trauma what not to say um you get to learn it in the experiential way it's almost like as a therapist you learn this in uh in class and as a medicine facilitator you learn it in the lab you know kind of

like reading versus experiencing it and of course I have complemented a lot of this experiential aspect by reading a lot of books around therapy and around how to heal the mind so um a lot of therapists when they've worked with me or they have seen some of the uh videos that I put out either in YouTube or the conferences that I've given live they think that I'm a therapist because I speak like them I use the same language I use the same Concepts um and they ask me where did you get your therapy license I said I didn't get any I just

read a lot of books and I also got to experience a lot of times my own subconscious mind so by doing this work for myself by realizing for example this is one of the many examples that I had much more trauma than what I thought I thought I had a really good childhood and I did actually I it's not that that's not necessarily false but because I had a good childhood with loving parents that cared for me that were ATT tuned to my needs and all of that um I thought that oh I probably carry no

trauma and the plans have shown me that that is not the case that there's much more than what I gave credit to and then it showed me how how to approach it when do I get afraid which emotions do I suppress and when once I started doing that work for myself and assisting other people in doing that work I got to see what are the fears that people go through what are the places where they get stuck how can they face them what are what is what is the environment needed for them to feel ready and brave

enough to um to face those fears what to say what not to say the whole healing process basically unfolded over the past I would say 10 years since I have been doing this so not a doctor yeah but I do the same work as a therapist does right right thank you for that explanation Ian now in the modern medicine we have got so many concrete tested USDA approved everything is available what you are saying is a different situation altoe why should people think about the type of medicines that you are talking about rather than going tested approved

medically approved worldwide different organizations approv why not try that first rather than moving on to the type of plants that you are talking about I want to understand yes that is such a great question the answer is very simple is um numbing versus real healing so the medicines that you're talking about first I W to uh clarify I am not against them I am not saying all of the pharmacies should be out of the world and only approach healing with these plants um but the main difference is that most medicines that you find in a pharmacy that are

approved by by all of these um uh entities right uh they the majority of them they don't address the root cause of the problem so for example if you suffer from anxiety um it's not that you are born with anxiety you might be anxious you might carry an underlying anxiety at all times because of things that have happened in your childhood that you couldn't either resolve or maybe didn't even visit and you don't even know that they are there it could be that you're anxious because you work too much but you just don't know how to stop working

because work stopping working Taps into your fear of uh not making um enough money even the fear might not be based on reality so what the uh what the a medical approach is is te appeal for your anxiety and while you are taking it you are going to feel less anxious but that is not taking care of what happened to you as a kid that is not taking care of why you are overworking or why you keep staying in a in a job that is stressing you too much so the day you stop that pill the anxiety of course

will come back and that applies to depression that applies to um you know pains in your body a lot of people take let's say something like ibuprofen or other painkillers some people daily every day because while they are with the pill they feel okay once the pill is gone they are not because the underlying issue has not been resolved so why go to these plants is because these plants and again uh this is not a interview about these plants I happen to work with them there are other ways of doing healing work at the at the end of the day every

time that I say these plants you can replace it with meaningful real healing work um it just happens that these plants are effective at it why do that is because this plants will not talk to you about your current job you know they'll talk to you about things that are rooted much much deeper that are causing this let's say anxiety or depression or whatever it is that you're suffering from so that it can be released and so that you never need to depend on anything again right right so let's understand you talk about spirituality you talk about

science so let's look at it from that point of view spirituality nowadays is including a lot of this stuff about meditation you know mindfulness now that is a big thing why not meditation for anxiety and all the things you are why jump to this L where there is no concrete uh concreteness around it why people should not look at meditation even if we are not using the modern medicine look at meditation and there is a whole world which believes and this is where you know science and spirituality is actually coming together in a big big manner help us understand

this part what do don't you think you are missing this part I I love the questions that you are making and I am 100% for meditation I meditate every morning sometimes twice a day and what's interesting about these plants uh is that there is a misconception around them which is some people believe that or when I start talking about them or when they read something on the Internet that if you take the plants that that's the only route and that that's you take the plant and then you're healed and in reality the plants are going to take you to

places that most likely you can't access any other way or that you can access with years and years of meditation um but what's funny about it is that once you get to those places then I would say the plants give you this homework and the homework is something like you don't need me you you have taken me to realize all of these things but then you also realize that all of these things are already there inside you and that you can access them in other ways so what's really interesting about what you're saying is that people

who who take these plants a lot of times so many times a j I can't even describe to you how how big of a percentage people then start meditating people start exercising they change their diet they start uh communicating better with their Partners so this is not take this plant every time or every day or every week because then that would then that would be kind of like what I was saying about the the pills right be with the pill all the time and depend on it these plans kind of like want to give you your

Independence back so absolutely meditation is to me essential for uh every human being to be able to be more in touch with themselves but a lot of people and maybe this will finish um responding to your question a lot of people don't have the motivation or capacity or understanding uh how to start meditating um and uh or they or the desire or they have tried and failed or it was boring to them then they do one of these Journeys with the plants and then they get really inspired they get to see their whole life they get to see where

they are failing and they get to see what they need to start doing every day kind of the homework the homework that I was talking about so so many people who wouldn't have started a meditation practice thanks to doing work with this Dan then they they start and sometimes they don't come back or Sometimes they come back after a year but they started a spiritual uh practice that leads them more towards their healing right so to understand it better if you said that uh you have a bit of an atheist background am I correct uh what background atheist oh

atheist yes yes aist yes so when somebody can ask you that Ian you are an atheist you do not look at religion and God the way others look at and you also talk about spirituality which people consider that it's much more towards you know godliness and towards understanding God universe and all those yes how would you like to respond to that sort of a thing you know to look at at you know spirituality versus uh from an ath atheist point of view MH um I would say that I used to be an atheist but I'm not an atheist

anymore I feel um very connected to God in ways that if I would have been hearing this interview how can I describe this if if we get this interview of me saying this and show it to 15 years ago Ian 15 years ago would be terrified would be like who did you become um but uh that has changed like I am grateful that I come from an atheist background because he gave me that way of looking at the world from a very logical standpoint which I found it very needed in order to explain logically things about spirituality today so

definitely um I feel much more connected to that and at the same time I think I want to clarify that spirituality is such a broad range is not just God of course God and the understanding or trying to understand what God is which is very individual for each person whether they have a religion or not there's a lot of spiritual people with religion and a lot of spiritual people without it um it's such a broad term so somebody for example I know a lot of spiritual people who are atheists and that might sound contradictory but these

are people who meditate every day who are close to their hearts who have a spiritual practice who do yoga um but if you ask them do you believe in God they'll be like not really um that is not my case I I do believe in God in a way that is not external to me I feel it like it's in this glass I feel it in the magic that's present at all times I feel it in the miracle of being alive and of the creation and so you know that that's my definition or my perception of it

which used to not be there and so thanks to the spiritual practices that I got involved in uh I got to that place and I'm so grateful that I didn't leave my my uh I would say logical mind so one way in which I unite both spirit and science to the sciencey people I explain spirituality from a very logical way I come to them speaking their language and for the spiritual people I come also speaking their language of spirituality and saying like Okay we connect on the spiritual side let me show you the science behind it so then they because

they already had a connection with me on that side they are more open to listen to an aspect that it doesn't come naturally to them absolutely absolutely well explained and well I can tell you about myself if I see your old videos I never get beholden to the past and to Old perspectives everyone can or has the right to change their perspective and keep on changing with more additional information about the world as well as about themselves even I used could be holding so many ideas differently different ways but today I could be that is why I said one should not be beholden

to either old things of the past or to perspectives then there is so much to learn from you Ian and I'm sure a lot of people would like to learn from you learn more about you uh you know be a part of what you do so what's the best way for them to connect with you thank youj um I have a website uh do you do you put that in the description or do you want me to say it you can say it also I'll also put it on the description yeah so my website is my

name.com so Ivan chr.com and then um my most preferred way is my YouTube channel so um you know how I was mentioning that we can do a lot of healing without the need for the plants the plants are great tools I want to for people to see them as tools not as the end goal uh yeah so when I realized that I do want the whole world to do healing work so that we all could live in a much more beautiful place I realized that giving plans is really profound for those who participate but it's not going to create

a massive shift and that's when I started my YouTube channel which some of the videos that I put out are about plants but some others are about emotions no need for plans how to process emotions what each emotion is uh or uh what trauma is how it happens how it happened to you whether you know it or not how to heal it so it's a lot about doing healing work without the need for plants and um in a way that is my favorite place to direct people toward more than my website because I feel like there is a big chance that

they are going to uh find videos that are going to change our life in a positive way so for that um you have to go to youtube.com slash Evan chran wonderful with this it's set wrap on this very special edition of the KJ Master Class live thank you so much indeed for joining us thank you [Music]