Mastering Overwhelm

Part 1

It actually helps understand that we all underestimate ourselves in where our powers are. And we don't believe we are as strong as we actually are until we are shown and we are shown not by the medicine just telling us, but by putting us in the place where we actually need to tap into that strength. And then you're like, wow, I could actually always do that. Welcome to the Mastering Overwhelm podcast.

I'm Mark Silverman. If you're dealing with the crushing responsibilities of running a business, leading a team, all while trying to live life, you're in the right place. Our job is to help you thrive in your business, relationships, and your personal well-being. Please enjoy the show.

Before we get started today, I have something for you. If you have a challenge that has something to do with the people in your life, head on over to marksilverman. com for the free powerful conversations worksheet. Welcome to part one of my conversation with a shaman friend of mine.

And for reasons that will become obvious, we're going to be calling him Nano. We're not going to be using his real name. So please enjoy our conversation about medicine, psychedelics, and healing our deep wounds. So this is going to be an unusual interview because the person that I'm interviewing is going to be somewhat anonymous.

I can't give you a bio, I can't give you all the information, all the expertise that he brings to the conversation because what we're going to be talking about in our society in America is a bit taboo still. It's a it's a tough one. So in my travels as a coach, you know, I work with people on success, I work with people on mindset, I work on their inner game, we touch on spirituality quite a bit. And you know, I, you know, if you listen to the podcast, I touch on that a lot.

One of the things I run into a lot is depression, anxiety, and all kinds of uh just mental illness that people are fighting through. And using conventional medications and therapies often don't work. So I started to I I think if you listen if you've listened for a long time, you listen to Tucker Max, the author, and his uh experience with psychedelic drugs and his mental health. Uh and I've had a few other people who have touched on this subject.

So I went and delved into it and I looked into it and I started to experiment a little bit myself so I could figure out what the benefit is because I really need to send people who are struggling someplace. I can't sit by and watch people just destroy their lives and they're doing everything they can to be better. So my guest, we're going to call him Nano because that's his that's a nickname that he enjoys, uh is someone that I met recently and had the pleasure of working with and had breakthrough after breakthrough. My voice is going to crack because I'm actually getting emotional.

After breakthrough with just a short time in his loving presence. So Nano, thank you for being here. It is my biggest pleasure, Mark. Thank you for inviting me.

So let's let's just start with you don't start off in life thinking that you're going to be working with medicine and psychedelics and helping people heal, right? You start off as a regular old person and then somehow you move into this. How did you find this way of life? Yeah, you're absolutely right.

I think if you ask any kid, what do you want to be when you're old? They'll say a fireman or something like that, the ice cream man, but none of them say, I want to serve medicine. Um, so a lot of people call it that it is a calling that it just calls you, like it actually calls you. And I can say it felt like that for me in the first time that I did it was completely out of chance, if you want to call it.

I went to my best friend's home and he wasn't there. I showed up unannounced, which I used to do that with him. And eventually when I realized he wasn't there, I went in his house anyway. And a shaman was there.

I said, who are you? Very curious looking guy with a very long beard. And he said, well, I'm X and I'm a shaman and we just had an medicine ceremony here. I was like, oh, wow, yeah, I heard of that.

And he's like, well, don't worry, if you missed it, we're having another one tomorrow. And that's how I was introduced to this particular medicine. And after experiencing it, I had the best night, best, most challenging, most beautiful night of my life. And definitely most transformative.

And still I was not thinking at all that I was eventually going to be serving the medicine myself. You went to college, you're an educated man, right? You're an athlete, you're a musician, all these other things. You're not you're not you weren't thinking, oh, my career path is shaman.

Definitely not. Especially because of how complex that night was. You know, yes, it was beautiful and transformative, but also it was really challenging as you yourself probably know. Because it was similar.

We'll get to my experience in a minute, yeah. Yeah. So you know, it is not something that was like, oh, this is this is my passion now. But what was my passion or what became my passion really quickly was to see people go through that transformation.

And so what I started doing was inviting all my friends to my shaman's ceremonies. And I organized ceremonies for him in my hometown in South America, everywhere. Like I just became passionate about assisting him in serving and following his own passion. And my passion was to for others to experience it.

Eventually, he he couldn't travel as much anymore. And I have a personality where I like figuring things out by myself. Um, so I started doing research and then eventually I started holding my own ceremony for myself. And my friends started wanting to join.

And they were like, can I join you? I was like, uh, sure. I just have no clue what I'm doing. So if you want to take the risk, yeah, be my guest.

How many years ago was this? Nine years ago. Nine years ago. So you've been doing this for a decade now.

Yeah. Yeah. And definitely I made a lot of mistakes along the way, but I think compared to to how many people have actually ended up benefiting from from it is the the vast minority. And I always did my best to go back to those people who who have had a hard time and that I couldn't help to see if I could somehow amend the situation.

And I was lucky enough for most of those people to decide to come back after I was much more experienced and give them what they were searching for the first time. Great. So let's let's just do a definition here. So what what is medicine?

That's a very good question. You know, sometimes people say, oh, if it's a plant, it's good for you. But some plants kill you. Some plants are poisonous.

I would say medicine right now in modern terms are a series of plants that people use to deal with the things that you were talking about in your introduction. Depression, anxiety, addiction, uh bad habits, whatever could be suicidal thoughts, grief, PTSD, etc. And it's called medicine, well, plant is obvious, and medicine in a way, it also sounds obvious, but at the same time, I think it's worth taking a minute to define what medicine is, because in Western societies, we call medicines a lot of things that actually are not necessarily a medicine, right? So if you go to a pharmacy, most things there are called medicines.

But if if I think it's worth defining what medicine is, I would say it's nothing else that something that really helps you heal. And healing means like genuine, true the act of of genuinely taking care of an issue. So if you take ibuprofen, you know, they would call that a medicine, but it's not really taking care of an issue. If you take antidepressants, it's not really taking care of your depression.

Sure, it is rising the levels of serotonin in your brain, and as that is happening, you are experiencing your depression much less until the moment that you might not even experience it at all. But that doesn't mean that you are not depressed. The moment that you stop taking the medication, you go back to your depression because you have not taken care of the root of the cause. So that's how I would define a medicine is something that really helps take care of the root of the cause.

And so these medicines take you to that root, so you can fully take care of it. And so that you'd never need to take it again. So what are some of the names of medicines? Um, I would say the most popular ones in this moment are medicine, medicine is Wachuma, it's the same the same plant.

Uh cousin of medicine is Medicine, which I would say probably in terms of the name is more popular. If you point at any random person in a shopping mall, there's more chances that that person will know the name Medicine than medicine, but medicine is being more used. They are cousins because they contain the same active compound, which is mescaline, and they generate somewhat of a similar experience. It's not exactly the same.

Mushrooms are probably the the most widely used in this moment, because they are widely available because they they allow for some recreational aspect to them, whereas medicine does not. No, I wouldn't call I wouldn't call that recreational in any way, shape or form. Exactly. Um, but mushrooms do allow for that.

If you take a big enough dose, then they stop being recreational, right? But because they allow for that, a lot of people are doing it are doing them by themselves without any guidance. And that also allows for a wider expansion. And then people do get the healing from that as well.

Medicine is a really other another really powerful medicine. There's a few others, but I would say those are probably the most used ones in this moment. They've been used by indigenous people for thousands of years to have spiritual journeys, to expand their consciousness. In what ways were they used for all all this time up until it's not like all of a sudden, you know, like, hey, let's go use this root or plant from, you know, South America to have an experience.

This has been something that's been since Bible times, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's just there's a few really interesting aspects to this. One is a really interesting historical event when it comes to more like an anthropological study, which is that when they look at the evolution of humans by looking at at the fossils and the bones, they noticed that it seems like there's a a link missing.

Like we were our our body and our bone structure was evolving up to a point, especially in the in the skull. And then eventually, there's like this big gap where our skulls were uh had a specific shape and then they had this other specific shape, much bigger in the frontal cortex. And there's like no in between, seems like. And it happens to be at the same time where they believe that mushrooms were starting to be used, which you know, this is a part of the brain that is in charge of language.

So somehow there's an understanding that it is very possible that mushrooms really helped in the evolution of language and in the evolution of humans to take a big leap in their evolutionary process, which is pretty interesting. And then for medicine, well, all that we know is what the shamans say about what their own ancestors have said, because there's not much written about it. But based on all of the anthropologists and all of the people who have gone to a jungle and talk to um the shamans, it seems that between 7 to 14,000 years is the time that we that we have somewhat recorded that medicine has been used to uh used uh as a medicine in the jungle. And something that is really interesting is that historically, that at the very, very beginning, it was the shaman who took the medicine and not the participant.

Um, because when the shaman would take the medicine, he would get full clarity in what was going on with you as as his patient. So the patient wouldn't take the medicine. It was the shaman himself. And the shamans were the doctors, right?

So you would come and be like, what's wrong with me? And the shaman would take the medicine and have a complete clear understanding of what's going on with you. And he would be like, well, you have this issue and these are the plants that you need to take for that that are not necessarily psychoactive, right? Like Got it.

Uh yeah, so like in the same way in which now most of the drugs found in a pharmacy either are direct extracts of or derivatives of yeah, of alkaloids found in plants. So obviously, the plants are the pharmacy of the world. And the shamans used to to take the the medicine to understand which ones did you need. Now, when I heard that for the first time, as somebody who studied exact sciences, yeah, I studied engineer and um I was telling you before, like I used to teach math and and chemistry.

That sounded like complete bogus to me. Yeah. You know, I was I was very skeptical. Until I started taking it myself and understood what that really meant.

Until I experienced it myself, I couldn't have really understood how that sounds. So any listener of this podcast right now saying like, yeah, whatever, someone takes a medicine and tells you what's wrong with you. Sure. Or maybe there is a a desire to believe that, but you just can't fully understand how that is possible.

Well, if you are a listener and you're in that position, I want you to know I totally get you. I was in that same exact position. Until I started serving the medicine myself, I would describe it as absolute clarity. Um, you totally know what's going on with that person.

And when you mention it, it lands. You can see that the person is like, yes, that is actually true. So that's a little bit of a historical overview of of how these plants have been used. No, great.

And I appreciate that because for me, when when I I have been fascinated by this since I read Carlos Castaneda, right? Way back when, you know, that was just to me, that was mystical and exotic and and attractive. And I've, you know, I've always been interested in other realms and I've I've I've had my own experiences stone cold sober, right? I'm sober 33 years, right?

So I'm not I'm not going to tempt myself with anything that's going to hurt my sobriety. But this was so fascinating to me that I had to really explore it for myself. And uh so for me, going in what I will say is that, you know, like my life is great, right? My life is amazing.

I wasn't really going to fix anything. I was really half research, half interested in maybe getting to some traumas that I haven't been able to get to. And what I found was such a complete and thorough uh inner cleaning. Painful, painful, painful.

Like really the things that I would never, ever, ever want to look at in my subconscious, you know, and uh on the other end of that, you know, and and and you remember, I think at at some point I said to you, there's no fucking way I'm ever doing this again. Right? We still had two days to go and I was like, there's no fucking way I'm doing this again. And now I'm like, I'm close to tears with how profound and healing the experience was, you know, a month later, you know, six weeks later.

Yeah, and as you as you said, it rewires some things that keep rewiring for time after it. So everything that I've read, every video I've watched about it, I actually from firsthand experience can now say that's true. And I, I'm like an ex-smoker, man. I'm walking around going, I want everybody to experience this from from some of the healing I've seen done with mushrooms and therapy, you know, like therapy and mushrooms together to get at traumas to what you and your absolute pristine and dedicated crew did.

Uh, you know, I think I think it can change the world. I don't it's not a recreational thing. I have no desire to play with it in any way, shape or form. It hasn't even slightly affected my sobriety in any way, shape or form.

So it's really fascinating to me. Can you just share with me some of the healings that you've seen, uh, you know, some of the things you're proud of that you've done for people? Is there anything that comes to mind? Kind of a selling point like, uh, I someone walked in with this.

Like I I saw one woman walk in, you know, just riddled with anxiety and self-consciousness and just like and I saw on the other side, and I've been to workshops where this kind of thing happens all the time. This was different. I saw a fundamental shift in the woman's being, you know, right in front of me while I was going through my own halacious process and it was breathtaking to me. Can you share anything that you, you know, comes to mind for you?

Yes, absolutely. Actually, I have to choose out of the many examples that show up. Yeah, but that that makes me feel such a privileged person to be able to witness all of this transformation within people. It really I feel absolutely blessed in in the same way as as you were saying.

Yeah, I I have so many examples. I'll start with maybe one of the ones that have moved me the most. And it's probably one of the most simple ones. There was this old man in Russia that I was serving.

And he's been to every possible war that you can imagine. So PTSD everywhere. Just just every and well, anyway, so when he comes, and he was probably in his he was probably 85. And I'm sorry if any of your listeners is 85 and I just said old man.

You can be 85 and still be youthful. Anyway, so uh he comes and he says, well, I heard uh from my son that you already served, that this is going to be very healing. But I've seen so much war in my life. My whole life is war.

I don't want to see any war images during my experience. And I said to him that I totally understood that and that I trust that if any war images would show up, that they would be shown in a way that he can handle them. Because that is true. It is true.

Like if the ceremony is properly held, then you don't go through anything that you cannot handle, even if it feels like a stretch for a moment. I will say from my own it felt like I couldn't handle it. In hindsight, it was perfect and and as perfect as it could be, but at the moment it didn't felt like I couldn't handle it and that's where the healing was. Taking me to the edge of what I can deal with.

Correct. Yeah, it actually helps you understand that we all underestimate ourselves in where our powers are. And we don't believe we are as strong as we actually are until we are shown and we are shown not by the medicine just telling us, but by putting us in the place where we actually need to tap into that strength. And then you're like, wow, I could actually always do that.

So knowing this, I I said that to him, but I also told him that maybe it will be something completely different. Now, what happened was that I served him the medicine and when I come about an hour and a half later to see how he's doing, his eyes are rolled back. So all you could see was the white part of his eyes. That would be frightening for you given he's 85 and you're like, oops.

Yeah, I was like, oh, well, I don't think there's war there anymore. I'm joking. Um, so his jaw was dropped. And he looked like like he was in absolute ecstasy.

And so I talked to him really really softly and say, how are you doing? He looks at me, finally his eyes come back. And he looks at me and he says, this is the one time in my life that all I am feeling is peace. Yeah, like I had goosebumps all over my Yeah.

Like like just seeing this presence and he's like, she's not giving me any war. All she's giving me is what it feels like to be in peace. And it's it's a very simple story, but I always talk to him after the experience for months. And he said that ever since he's only been feeling peace.

And so my interpretation of the situation is that he at that age, so medicine as as you probably experienced it yourself and heard me talk about during the ceremony, one of the things that she does is it helps nitpick or cherry pick all of these parts of yourself that you have not explored that are usually very painful and that's why you have not explored them, right? Because it's it's hard to like decide to hammer your own hand. You're like That's exactly what it was. Who's going to do that?

Right? So if it's something that's really painful, you're not going to go see it. So medicine goes and and into all of these places and then it starts like helping you release them. But it goes one by one.

And my interpretation of this situation with this man was very different because I feel like at that age, with how much he's seen, the healing wouldn't come really from cherry picking situations of his life. It's probably way too many and he's at the end of his life to start doing that. It's just just not probably enough time or even enough fuel, enough life force or fire within him. So that was one of those times where the medicine surprised me as well, where I was like, wow, she's so magical that all she did is instead of of trying to work through this person's trauma, it just gave him like a peaceful end of his life.

And yeah, that was really powerful. I have many other stories. Prostitution has been a really good one. This this other woman.

I worked actually with a lot of women who have chosen the path of prostitution or chosen or who have no other choice. I think it's better better said, yeah. Um, I don't want to sound disrespectful. And one of them said that they just she just didn't know how to stop.

Like she became completely addicted to sex and to and that was her the way she wanted to make money and but that she could tell that it was not good and she just could not stop. So so during the ceremony, she all of that got activated. She started having sex with the air, if you want to call it, as if the invisible man would be having sex with her, you know, kind of thing. Like it was a very visual visually impactful thing.

And when I come to her, she she says, I need you to please have sex with me. And I said, tell me why. And she said, I just need it. It's so intense.

Like I'm going to like die right now if I don't have sex right now with someone. And I said, this is exactly the point where you are about to heal. So what I said to her was to please hold that energy and feel the pain of how hard it is to not have sex in this moment. And when she feels the pain to express it in some other way.

So usually it's in the form of an orgasm, which is a really a form of release. So I took her to a different room so she wouldn't bother anybody and so she would feel also free. And she as she was feeling that, she was yelling and like punching the the bed, like really going absolute crazy, but with with permission. It was like controlled chaos.

And only after that got released, she realized where her sex addiction came from, which was related to abuse from her father, etc. Like there was there's a lot of details. And we worked it all through, but it came from that moment where she finally stopped releasing it and kept it and expressed it in some other way that helped rewire the whole brain into like, oh, when I feel this impulse, rather than what I've been doing, I'm going to start doing this other new thing, which is basically neurogenesis, which means new neural pathways. Um, it's like you start taking a new route for the first time, which you feel maybe lost.

But once you know this route, you can start taking it again. Which is why addiction and habits are so hard to break because you haven't you haven't developed those new neural pathways yet. Correct. Energy always takes the path of least resistance.

So that's that's how a leak in your roof happens, right? Like it rains for years until eventually one drop starts finding a little path. And then once that little path is formed, then the water is going to start always going through there, because it's the path of least resistance. And then it's going to form that path even stronger.

So then the water will have even more chances of going there until eventually it's impossible for the water to go any other way. This is the way rivers are formed. The water will not go any other way than through a river, because it has it has been carving that path for so long and it's taking the path of least resistance. And that's how neural pathways work too.

That's why you can get very good at a musical instrument or at a language. At the beginning, you have to think of that new if you want to call it, of that movement as your pathway gets more and more reinforced until eventually you don't even have to think it anymore. So the same thing happened with her. We formed a new neural pathway, if you want to call it.

And years later, we we kept talking and she said that her sex addiction was gone. Not only she stopped prostitution, but also she fully healed from sex addiction. She was not having the impulses anymore. So these are just a few examples, but I really see this kind of really strong transformations in every single ceremony, which is as I said, a privilege.

I still cannot believe that I get to see all of this. I feel I feel very blessed. The thing about pain is really fascinating to me because that pain is really real. And we paint over it and paint over it and paint over it and put band-aids on it so that we don't know that that pain is there.

That's one of the things that was so surprised me of my journey was because I do have so much peace, because I am so, you know, air quotes spiritual and all that stuff, right? I have figured out a way to heal in a certain way in life from that pain, but I never really did, right? The root was still there. And this brought me to the root of that pain.

So when you talk about her, she wouldn't she wouldn't hit her own hand with a hammer to feel that pain to be free from it. I'd rather die than feel that pain again, right? So that's the whole point there. my experience with mushrooms, that's why I eased into this and I did some things I did some therapy with mushrooms on a very specific childhood trauma.

And what was really interesting to me was we we kept going over this trauma, kept going and I've gone over this trauma for years at nausea, you know, like we kept going over, kept going over it. And then something about the mushrooms where my resistance to the person who was working with me was very clear. I wasn't going to look at it the way she saw it. The mushrooms allowed me to go past that piece, and I saw something different than I've ever seen in my entire life.

The dominoes fell within three minutes, my whole life and what I what I had decided out of that trauma, filed in the filing cabinet in the right way, and I was free. But it took a little something to help me get past that. And then back to you taking the woman to the other room. She asked you to have sex with her and you took her to another room.

Having someone who is beyond reproach with their integrity and safe is so essential. That was one of the things I said to you when I met you was the integrity that I just felt that pouring out of you. So that woman was safe with you to work through that trauma. Because, you know, there's there's a lot of nightmares from these kinds of things.

So I'm really appreciative that you're that kind of guy. I hope you enjoyed part one of my conversation with Nano the Shaman. You got some insights for yourself. Please join us next week as I continue to talk to Nano about marijuana.

It's not the conversation you're expecting. I hope you'll join us for part two. Thank you for joining us at the Mastering Overwhelm podcast. I really appreciate your time and attention.

If you like the podcast, please share it, please rate us on wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you have questions, send them to Mark at marksilverman. com and I'll see if I can get that type of expert or answer the question myself on the podcast. Have a great rest of the day.

Part 2

The only way to really hide is to go towards them and to feel the pain in all of its power so that it can be fully released. What one really wants to be free of is free of pain. The problem of any numbing mechanism is that if you use it to constantly be avoiding the root cause, the root cause will always be there. Welcome to the Mastering Overwhelm podcast.

I'm Mark Silverman. If you're dealing with the crushing responsibilities of running a business, leading a team, all while trying to live life, you're in the right place. Our job is to help you thrive in your business, relationships, and your personal well-being. Please enjoy the show.

Before we get started today, I have something for you. If you're feeling tired, unmotivated, and on empty, head on over to marksilverman. com for a free worksheet that will help you bring your energy and vitality back. It's called the coping mechanisms versus coping skills worksheet.

Welcome back to part two of my conversation with my friend the Shaman we're calling Nano. Last week we talked about Medicine, psychedelics and healing deep wounds. This week we're going to go into a subject that a lot of people are talking about, thinking about and uh practicing, which is marijuana. It's not the conversation you'll expect.

I hope you enjoy. So I'm curious. So you can people can't find you in the phone book, right? Like they can't call like like 1-800 um Medicine journey and go find you, right?

We we have to be careful with this. The ceremonies are happening more and more in the states. You don't have to go to the jungles of South South America to do this anymore. Very mainstream people.

I know a really good place in Costa Rica. But if you want to start um looking into this for yourself, how do you start researching? How would people start to like dip their toe into going, you know, this might be for me. How do I how do they do their own research?

It's a very good question and I'm glad you're asking it because I think this is information that people should have. A lot of people when they come to ceremony, they tell me that they've heard about it for so long and then they've been interested about it for so long and that they were just waiting for the right opportunity. Now, if you're listening to this right now and you feel like you you really wanted, but you don't know anyone. I think today, if you're in the United States, probably if you're anywhere, it's getting so popular that all you need to do is start asking around your friends and somebody will know at least somebody who has done a ceremony.

At this point is is is widespread enough. Now, that is not the point. That in a way it's obviously very easy to do. The point is it's very, very important that you go to somebody that has been highly recommended by your friend.

Rather than because you can also Google it. In the US, there are a few places. I think maybe there's just one. I don't want to name anything in this moment, but there are one or two places that advertise openly.

But to be honest, I have not heard good things from them. And this this these ceremonies can be so healing, but if they are not properly held, um they can also be leaving you in a in a worse place than uh where you started. Now, this is not to scare anybody. Again, if it's properly held, then you will come out better.

But yeah, imagine imagine this woman we were just talking about that I would be like, oh, well, great opportunity to have sex now. Well, wonderful. Then what would have happened was her trauma showed up. I would have only reinforced the trauma.

Rather than creating a new neural pathway, we would have reinforced the idea that the world is unsafe or that people can take advantage of her, etc. In a in a in a vulnerable moment. Unfortunately, I've seen plenty of that. Way more than what I thought there would be at the beginning of my journey with Medicine because my journey was so beautiful and it has helped me heal so much.

You brought your family into it and your family had healing and right? Yes, yeah. And and so what happened was that I was under the impression, if one journey was so healing for me, that anybody who's a shaman, who has done hundreds, then they should probably be enlightened. And I see that a lot of people have uh are under this false impression.

Unfortunately, it's not the case. A lot of people who are not in integrity, the only thing that it does is it keeps it keeps reinforcing the lack of integrity. Unless they go, they have the humility to go to somebody who's in full integrity, that will be able to point that out at them and show them why it's in their own benefit to change those ways. So anyway, that all of that is to say, there's unfortunately a lot of uh lack of integrity out there.

So make sure that if you ask around that you go to somebody that it is very recommended. And for me, I have a criteria of that. So for me, I the person who introduced me to you, I trust with my life. Right?

So I would I would trust this person with my life. So I trust her, you know, we've been talking about this for years and it wasn't until she met you that she said, now I found the person who has the integrity to do this. So really, you have to really look at the person who's doing the referral, the recommendation because you really can't know. Uh there are some mainstream stuff.

I had I had a client a, you know, an executive in an organization in New York, uptight, uptight guy, you know, wound up tight, hard worker, all that stuff, no spirituality whatsoever. And he decided after, you know, after a year of working with me, uh I tend to open things up like that. He went away to Costa Rica and did a residency Medicine journey, came back, heart open, full of love, completely different human being, right? Which is actually this was before I did it, which was really So there are some places, uh so if if you contact me, I will I can I can send you to some of the places that I know people have gone that are outside the country that have some good reputations.

I have one more place I want to go with you because I I have to I have to do this rant. I think I know where you're going. We're going to piss off some of my listeners. Right?

But what I want to say before before you say anything is if you are one of the listeners that's about to get pissed off, trust that we've seen this enough and that we can at least offer a new perspective on something that it is not talked about. And you can do with that perspective whatever you want. That's such a kind way of doing that. So for me, I will not coach someone who smokes pot regularly.

I will coach people who drink. I will coach people who smoke pot recreational once in a while, you know, on the weekend or something like that. But anybody who maintenance smokes pot for me, I will not coach them because what I've noticed is that there's a change in personality, there's a change in the way they go about the world and the coaching that they don't make the breakthroughs that they could because for me, something about regular pot use changes a person. It's not a moral judgment.

I don't I could care less, right? But for me, I just won't professionally coach someone. People give me a lot of money. I don't want them to not have results, right?

So, uh and and, you know, you were talking about the dangers of marijuana and such an eloquent and persuasive way. I would love to hear your perspective on marijuana in Main Street uh America. Very good. It's a topic that I actually kind of enjoy talking about because it really it does make people react in a very like defensive way.

But once I start talking about it, people are like, wow, I never thought of it in that way. And it's really nice to see people like just drop their defenses. So, if you're a listener and your defenses are up, know that I get it. I totally get it.

Obviously, I am not against mind altering substances. So, so that bias is gone. But I do feel that marijuana has many, many more dangers than what it is credited for. I know this thanks to working with Medicine.

Otherwise, I don't think I would know as well why. I I never felt very drawn to this plant, but I never understood exactly why. And only after working with Medicine, I realized why. And it is, I'll start comparing it a little bit with Medicine, but I I want to talk more about the plant by itself.

But at the beginning, I want to say that Medicine gives you this understanding that these places of pain that you were hiding from, the only way to really hide is to go towards them and to feel the pain in all of its power so that it can be fully released. Because when one doesn't want to feel pain, or better say, when one one really wants to be free of is free of pain. And even just mild discomfort. Right?

We're not even talking about deep trauma pain. This is just mild discomfort of not wanting to do your taxes, of not wanting to adult or anything like that. Just so it it doesn't have to be anything acute. It just could be I want to smoke pot because I just don't want to feel anxious.

Yeah, I I'll yeah, I'll I'll go through a few of those examples. But then people after an Medicine ceremony, they feel amazing because not only they don't feel the pain anymore, because it's fully released, but there's there's this feeling of freedom of that pain. So, marijuana has the exact opposite effect. So, it's like also you're not going to feel your pain.

Now, I know that a lot of people listening will be like, well, I don't smoke pot to not feel pain. I smoke it because it's fun. I smoke it because the movies are funnier. I smoke it because sex feels better or the food is tastier.

It just I can sleep better. Like whatever it is, it enhances it. It enhances something. It even enhances your sleep.

Now, this I'm talking about the people who are at least consciously not saying that they are numbing something. But a question that I like to bring up is what's wrong with the taste of the food the way it is? What's wrong with sex the way it is? Or if you take it for sleep, why can't you sleep well to start with?

So, the problem with any form of numbing mechanism, let's go to Ibuprofen just to put people's defenses down. If you have a headache every day, and you have the option of Ibuprofen, then you'll be like, yeah, I'll just and and we get so used to things, right? Like they become a routine. So, it's like, yeah, I'll just pop this pill and then it's gone.

But it's not really gone. The the cause for it is there. The problem of any numbing mechanism is that if you use it to constantly be avoiding the root cause, the root cause will always be there. And it takes away the power from you.

It's like, well, I don't need real healing. I can just do this for the rest of my life. Another issue is the less that you feel your pain, the less that you will want to do something about it. So, I find this to be extremely important.

If you don't feel pain, there's no need to do something about it. Right? In a way, pain is your friend. It's telling you, hey, there's something off here.

It's like the check engine light of your car. If you then put a sticker on top of the check engine light, you don't see it anymore. That doesn't mean the car is fixed, right? It's like, hey, please take care of me.

And if you don't do something, it's going to get worse. So, if somebody smokes pot because they cannot sleep, well, you have this solution this quote unquote solution. You can smoke pot every night and then you can go to sleep. But because you are not experiencing the pain of not being able to sleep every day, there's no need to do something about it.

Now, imagine there is no Ibuprofen or no pot, no anything. You just cannot sleep. You cannot ever sleep. Eventually, it will become so unbearable that you will be like, I need to do something about this.

What's something's wrong. And maybe what's wrong is you're always anxious or your work stresses you way too much. So, what pot does by allowing you to sleep is also allowing whatever's causing the problem. And this problem is telling you, hey, this doesn't does not align with your life the way it is.

Like if you're if your work stresses you so much that it doesn't allow you to sleep, it will probably also cause like high cortisol levels, which eventually can develop into different like into a heart attack or into like these diseases. So, any any form of numbing mechanism is going to take away your need to do something about it. That's why anytime I'm in pain, I try not to numb it, but I try to to ask myself where is this pain really guiding me towards. And I most of the times find the solution.

Now, another issue is that by numbing the pain instead of trying to heal it, we create neural pathways that tell us that the way to deal with pain is by numbing it. So, in so many ways, any form of numbing mechanism is taking away your power. It's making you less a lot of people smoke pot because some of the feelings that they feel are too intense. And so by reducing um the pain that that that you experience with that, you are also reducing your capacity to hold that pain.

And that capacity is something that is so important to develop. So, I I and I can see it in in myself. I have a big capacity to hold pain. So, when when I'm in pain, I'm okay with being in pain.

I'm not enjoying it, but I'm okay. I'm like, this sucks. And I'm okay with with holding that pain right now because I've trained myself to be okay with that. The the byproduct of that is less things are painful.

Right? So if you actually can sit with the pain, you expand your capacity so that other things in life aren't as painful where if you're constantly numbing and you constantly don't want to feel these feelings, these pains, more and more things will cause that. Right? And your life gets smaller and smaller.

I do I have a giveaway which I'll probably give away on this podcast, which is coping mechanisms versus coping skills. Coping mechanisms is what you're talking about, numbing, right? You know, the quick fixes, the things that are easy. Coping skills are the things that will build your capacity.

So, uh we'll give that away on on this uh episode because you're saying it's so eloquently. Thank you, Mark. Yeah, I have if you if you have a few more minutes, a few more things to say. Please go.

Yeah. One will be at the end, which is, so what do we do with numbing? Because despite everything I said, I'm not opposed to numbing. But I'll I'll go to that in a minute.

Last thing, I actually, the thing is, I could talk about marijuana for a long, long time, like way longer than what we've been talking about. But maybe the last thing I want to say right now is every time that one of the dangers of marijuana is like every time that you consume any any psychoactive plant, you're actually meeting meeting with this plant and meeting with what it does to you. Or for you. It's like, wow, now I'm in this experience.

So, in a way, this plant is giving you something. And in just the way the universe is always in balance, if it's giving you something, it's also asking for something in return. With Medicine, it's very clear. Medicine is like, you will do all of this work first.

You're going to puke, you're going to like feel horrible, maybe. Uh I don't want again, I don't want to scare people. Some people don't feel any of that. They feel amazing all the time.

But for sure you're going to go and explore the place. I'm going to make you work. And I am clear about that. This is what I'm asking from you.

I'm asking from you to take a journey into the parts of yourself that you have been ignoring that are uncomfortable to explore. So, I'm what I'm asking from you is your commitment towards yourself. And this is what Medicine asks. In return, I'm going to provide you with all of this healing.

And it's very very clear. But marijuana is I find it to be a very sneaky spirit, if you want to call it. That's the word that's the word that came up for me, yeah. Yeah, where you are not aware of the contract that you're assigning.

And so, marijuana is like, I'm going to make you experience all of these things first. You're going to have a great time first. You're going to sleep better. You're going to enjoy the movie better, everything.

And then that's it. And it's like, oh, great. What's wrong with this deal? I'm getting everything.

Right? But the deal is that you you will give something back. And the problem with with the way in which it operates is that it's not clear. You most people don't know the deal that they are signing.

And one of the things that she starts asking for is your willpower. And so, if you pay really attention, like anytime that you smoke, then you are going to be prone to smoke again because you're giving a little bit of your willpower away by wanting to just go to sleep easier or like not do work, basically. And what happens with this plant is the more you do it, the less it gives you and the more it asks you in return. And the more you do it, the more chances you are you have to do it again.

So, it just takes one time to start that process of, oh, wow, you gave and that's one of her tricks. It's like she gives you so much and you give so little at the beginning. That you're like, oh, there's nothing wrong with this. And that's literally one of the sneaky ways in which it works.

And so, you keep going and you keep going and you keep going and eventually you're like, ah, I just want this little one thing. You are you start getting conformed with how little she gives you and how much you give of yourself. Until eventually you are like fully under uh her spell and she's got you. And that's why probably you don't coach people that smoke a lot because people who smoke a lot, they have a tendency to dismiss their own willpower.

Their willpower You just explained it. I I have light bulbs are going off for me everywhere. Amazing. I could spend another hour just talking about this with everything because I'm sure success gives you something and asks for something, right?

Ice cream gives you something and asks for something. Right? And are you willing to make that deal with almost everything in your life? You know, what is it giving you and what is it asking of you?

That's such a conscious way of paying attention to what you bring into your life. I'm go goosebumpy over this. Yeah. It's a pretty cool perspective.

Oh, and you saved it for the end, man. Oh my God. This is this is so good. So, the very yes, I I just want the last thing is very short actually, which is um now if you are listening to this and you're like, oh shit, like I wasn't can I say these words in your podcast?

I was Any any words. It doesn't matter. Okay. I wasn't aware of the deal I was making.

But yeah, it's true. The more I smoke, the less the less I I tend to want to do things or the more just look at it, you know, as a it this could not be applying to you individually. But if you look at it generally, what does the population of people who smoke a lot tend to do? And they tend to live things for tomorrow or to be a little bit more careless, etc.

Now, if you're like, okay, I need to stop. I want to be really clear about how okay I am also, even after everything I said, with any form of numbing mechanism. Because if we understand what numbing is for, then we can be okay with numbing. Now, numbing if let's let's put it in a different way.

Imagine you're going to surgery. You're about to be opened up. If you don't use a numbing mechanism, which is anesthesia, you cannot operate because the pain is too intense. So, you need to numb for a little bit, uh for however long the operation lasts, get cut open, have everything done, and then once you're stitched up, you can stop the numbing mechanism.

Now, the same thing happens with Now, imagine that uh that you take the anesthesia, but they don't operate. Then you wake up and you're like, oh, I'm still in pain. I'm going to take more anesthesia. Right.

And then they don't operate. And then you wake up and it's like, I need to take more anesthesia. So, numbing it's meant to buy you time. This is how I see it.

It's okay to numb. And I want to say it's okay to numb so that people don't put the pressure in themselves that what they are doing is wrong or something to be ashamed of. Because once shame kicks in, then it's much harder to take action in something because shame is a protective mechanism that helps you not see something because you're ashamed of it. So, you want to look somewhere else.

So, shame shows up a lot of times when you are doing something that you believe that you should not. So, that's the moment where shame arises. So, if you listen to this whole rant about marijuana and you're like, oh, I'm doing something I should not be doing, then shame will show up. And I don't want for shame to show up because then it's going to be much harder to do something about it.

So, what can we do? Well, we need to understand what numbing is meant for. Numbing is meant for if you're in extreme pain or if life is not what it could be unless you are with marijuana or any of these other things. That's okay.

Keep going. Keep doing it. But know that all you're doing is taking anesthesia. Make sure that you operate too.

So, it buys you time so that pain is not so intense that you can't do anything about it as you find for real healing. When you don't know that real healing is real, then or or is possible, then of course numbing is all you've got. And I totally understand why literally, I don't know, three quarters of the world or maybe more, I don't know, are in constant numbing state. Because well, this is all we've got to deal with our pain.

Fortunately, the good news is like, no, that is not the case. Real healing is possible. Numbing is meant to buy you some time as you're in extreme pain, as you do real healing, so eventually numbing um is not there anymore. So, if you're numbing, know that that's okay.

But know that if you're not searching for true healing in the meantime, you are literally wasting your your time and wasting your numbing, which will be asking again for something uh from you. My brain is firing with so many applications to this. You know, I've listened to a lot of people. I haven't heard this this way.

Uh so I'm processing while you're talking. Uh so I have nothing smart to say back to you because this is really really eloquent. I really appreciate you tying this all up with a bow. Uh yeah, I can go a couple more hours.

Nano, I appreciate you so much. Thank you, Mark. Me too. It was such an honor and such a pleasure to work with you and to see your process.

It was so powerful and beautiful and I felt the same thing that I was telling you before, a constant privilege of being able to witness something like that. And I'm glad it created such a beautiful transformation in your life that it is so so clear. It's so easy to see. You look amazing.

Thank you. You and I are not done. So that's that's that's that's very very clear. Uh you just did a triathlon, right?

I'm training for Iron Man. Oh, you didn't do the Iron Man yet. I thought you did the Iron Man. Uh it's in July 3rd in Austria.

Oh, cuz I I saw the pictures of So the reason I the only reason I bring this up is because you're not sitting on your couch in a fetal position. Like you're out there you're out there just kicking ass and you know, like living a whole vibrant life out of what out of your practices and and the and what you bring to your life. So it's a very very cool thing. Thank you, Mark.

I appreciate you taking the time and sharing with us. Uh it was my pleasure. Anytime you want to have me, I'll be happy to come back. And I actually may ask you to come back and do something like when I listen back, there's a couple things I'd love for you to expand on because it's it's it's absolutely I can't wait till your book comes out.

Yeah. But I can't tell everybody how to get in touch with uh my Shaman, but that's okay. Get in touch with me. I'll see how I can help.

Nano, have a great rest of your day. Same to you. It was such a pleasure. Uh can't wait to see you again soon.

And to everybody else who's listening, I just I so appreciate your time and your attention. I love you. Have a great rest of the day. Thank you for joining us at the Mastering Overwhelm podcast.

I really appreciate your time and attention. If you like the podcast, please share it. Please rate us on wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you have questions, send them to Mark at marksilverman.

com and I'll see if I can get that type of expert or answer the question myself on the podcast. Have a great rest of the day.