The Rising Leader

I could be wrong, but I believe that the reason why this has happened is because one of the ways in which Ihuasca helps people heal is by putting them closer to the path of their purpose. And so, for some people, in order to get closer to their purpose, they first need to do things that I already mentioned, like forgiving somebody or letting go of their childhood or something else. That was not specifically your case. In your case, it was to actually get in touch with the things that you are already good at, that are already in there and just unlocking them so that they can flourish.

And now you are helping people become leaders, rising leaders, right? And you are and this is probably, I assume, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I assume that this is a very fulfilling thing for you, that doing this feels good in your heart, feels beyond that, feels like I am meant for this. This is when I do this, a part of me just shines and and and and expresses itself. Welcome to the Rising Leader podcast, where being a high achiever doesn't necessarily equate to being an effective leader.

Let's check to see if you're in the right place. If you're rising through the ranks of your organization so fast that your leadership skills need to grow as fast as your responsibilities, you're in the right place. If it seems you need different skills to lead your team or from within your group of talented, competitive peers, you're in the right place. If you're looking to become a trusted advisor to the CEO, you are definitely in the right place.

So now that we know that you're in the right place, enjoy today's conversation. Before we begin the show, I have something for you. The Rising Leader Handbook will be published in January of 2024, but you don't have to wait. Go to my website www.

markjsilverman. com and click the red button. There you can get an advance copy of the executive summary of the Rising Leader Handbook. And in the same place, you can get a free copy of only tens.

I'd love to hear your feedback. Now, on with the show. This podcast, the Rising Leader podcast, the book, the Rising Leader Handbook, turning high achievers into effective leaders, the program that I have, everything that I've created and everything you've been seeing from me this past year, would not exist if I hadn't met my next guest. I had to go on a journey of self-discovery in order for myself to bring this into the world.

I've been a successful coach for a long time. I've coached leaders, I've taught people how to be their best selves in all situations, but I never really talked about being a leadership coach. I never branded myself that way. So if you know my past podcast, mastering midlife, mastering overwhelm, I've danced around the subject, but I've never really owned who I was in the world, how I make my money, how I make an impact in the world until I experienced a retreat with the person we're going to be talking about.

I actually interviewed Yvon Chokran on my last podcast, Mastering Overwhelm, where we called him Nana. We we we he wasn't ready to talk about things publicly that he does because they're kind of on the outside of norm for society. But now he is actually come out into the world and really owning what he does for a living. So together we've really gone on a on a journey of discovery.

I met Yvon when a friend of mine, the most powerful, incredible coach in the world, Christina Berkeley, who said she wanted to introduce me to medicine and Medicine. But for years, she was waiting for the right teacher, for the right shaman, for the right facilitator that she trusted the most precious people in her world to. And when she met Yvon, she knew she found the right person. Uh, when I met Yvon, you got to understand, I I love a lot of people.

I admire and respect a few people. I trust almost no one. When I met Yvon, I trusted him. I actually entrusted him with my life in in in times when I was uh going through some of the most difficult things I've ever experienced.

And this man has held me both spiritually and physically while I did that. So, hard not to cry when you when you meet someone this profound. Officially, Yvon Chokran is a captivating and inspirational speaker who passionately shares his philosophy of grounded, relatable healing and conscious use of medicine. As a highly regarded thought leader, he skillfully bridges the realms of science and spirituality to make the concept of healing accessible to a diverse global audience.

By grounding his message in relatable terms, Yvon is able to resonate with individuals from all backgrounds. His unique approach invites people into a space of heightened self-awareness, serving as a catalyst for transformative inner work. With a thriving global community who I have been a part of, uh, Yvon offers wide-ranging services including leadership consulting and executive team building, transform transformative retreats and personalized coaching. I've watched him create miracles in the spaces that he creates.

He's created those miracles for me. Yvon, thank you for being on the show. Mark. Wow, I don't know what to say after that introduction.

I told you I would talk way too long and then I would finally let you talk. Well, um, I think the first thing I want to say is that first is that it is a pleasure to be back talking to you. I could do this a million times. I love you so much and it is such a pleasure to be to be witness of the transformation that you have been going through since we met and just to be in your presence.

So again, thank you so much for having me here. I appreciate that. So remember, Yvon and I spoke before on the mastering overwhelm workshop and we went into my story quite a bit in the transformation that I received in that episode. And we're going to put that in the show notes.

If you want to go listen to it, it's actually one of my most listened to podcasts, which is shocking. It has gone through the communities and really made a difference. So we wanted to have this conversation now with Yvon out in the world. So I'm curious, I'm talking medicine and Medicine and most people don't even know what the hell I'm talking about.

What what are we talking about here? Yeah, fortunately, I would say that it's starting to change. The times where you say the word Medicine or medicine and people are like, what on earth is that are starting to be part of the past. However, there's still a lot of stigma around it, especially in the audience that you aim towards, right?

Like in the corporate world, where this thing is something that other people do, like the hippies. And I'm not saying this in a in a dispective way, but it's kind of like, I'm just talking colloquially, kind of like, this is just for those who who believe in those things, like to to or crazy or crazy Silicon Valley CEOs. Yes, exactly. That that as well.

So it's like divided into like, oh, the the crazy tech people or the super hippies that hug trees. That's it. They this is just for them and it is some sort of something. You know, right?

People don't know exactly what this is really used for and I think, well, based on your introduction and reading a little bit of my bio, I am here because I believe one of my my missions among many is to help people understand that this is for almost every person. And when I mean this, I don't mean just medicine. One of the maybe common mistakes in the medicine world, and I mean mistakes that are done both by participants and facilitators is to believe that the only way of healing is through medicine or if you go to medicine, it is the plant that is doing the healing for you and you become dependent on the plant itself. And I found out, and I used to believe that too, especially at the beginning, because there isn't much guidance going around.

There there isn't that many books that talk about it for people in the West. There isn't there there's a lot of anthropological books and people who've gone to the jungle and they brought those experiences back and they talk about them. But there isn't many books or much guidance in general around how to adapt the use of medicine in the West in a way that makes the most sense both for the society and also for each individual. And once you adapt it, you realize that pretty much everybody can do it and pretty much everybody can benefit from it if it is curated for them.

If it's not curated for them, then it can create the opposite effect. So, what's the difference between medicine and doing drugs? Great question. I think when people ask me that question, the first thing that I talk about is that the words bring different things within us.

So, if you say the word drug, there is a set of concepts and images that come within you and and feelings. And those set of images and concepts and feelings are already pre-established by the beliefs of those who taught us what those things were. So, when the frying the egg in the pan, that commercial from a few decades ago, the propaganda from Ronald Reagan and pretty much everything that we have heard encapsulates the word drug in such a negative connotation because they create addiction and they are people use them to enjoy first and pay for it later and to escape their problems. And usually it is associated with people who are kind of lost in their life and they are trying for an escape.

Now, the problem is that the and people and people do use it that way. Like most of us who know people who use drugs, whether it's alcohol, pot or or something even stronger, we know it in that context because we Oh, 100%. Very few of us have been have been exposed to the healing parts of this. Well, here's I think where the confusion comes and I am not disagreeing at all.

Drugs bring those emotions and those images in us because that's how they are mostly used. And it is kind of strange to use a drug in some any other context or for some any other reason. Now, where the confusion comes is that drugs do all of that and they also get you high, right? So, we think that if something there's an association that happens, which is if something gets you high, then all of those things are going to happen too.

If something gets you high, you're escaping your problems, you're paying for it later, you are escaping your problems, all of those things. And I think that's simply where the confusion comes, because a medicine, just medicine or any anything that has the word medicine in it, brings a different set of images and feelings within us, which is, oh, if you take this, then you heal, right? So, what if you take a medicine that it is psychedelic? It's it's it's almost like creating within our minds a paradox, because wait, I thought that anything that's psychedelic is drug and drug is all of those bad things.

But there is also a world and some substances that are not like that, that are psychedelic, but they have all the qualities of a medicine, that they heal you, they take away from addiction, they instead of helping you escape your problems, they help you dive deep into them, because it is actually hard to do that by yourself. I love that. So I'm going to slow you down right there because that's my experience. So I'm I'm 34 years sober.

Right? I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I don't use substances to escape. I use buying things and food to escape, but I don't use drugs. So when you but what you said was, we can use these substances to actually face our problems, to actually instead of running away, stay when we want to run away.

And that's I think the really impactful difference. Yes. And I would say there is a part of ourselves that have a really hard time even if we want it to dive into our into the things that are the things that we usually escape from. Even if I say, I really want to work on myself, I really want to work on my issues, I'm going to start therapy tomorrow.

And then you go, and then the therapist starts asking you questions, and there will more likely there's going to be moments in which you start experiencing some resistance, right? And you might be like, I don't want to talk about that, or you're like, I want to talk about that, but something in you is blocked and doesn't want to access it. Something that might be much stronger than your will or your desire is something that it is programmed within your trauma. And so, this is where medicine comes in, which is almost like you drink it and now you have a much easier access to these things that you might want to face and you can't even if you want it, right?

So, it's it's almost like a catalyst that I I don't want to use the word forces because you ultimately you are deciding to do it. But that facilitates going into those places. I would say it forces with permission. So going into because because again, I have done so much work.

I have done trauma work. I have done deep trauma work on some of the scariest things. But when I said yes to going into the field, to going into this space of healing, it had me face things that were so painful that I didn't even know I needed to face them in the conscious world. Right?

So, so it it kind and when and again, when I when I said in the middle of the process, this is too much for me. I don't want to do it. She said, you don't have to. Right?

So I was always at choice. And I said I did, but it it did kind of feel like, you're on the slide, it's going to hurt to get off. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, there's moments where once you start your experience, you might regret it. Be like, actually, I don't want to do this. It's already too late. And that's good because I believe that if the facilitation is proper, and that includes, you know, you in your introduction, you said that you felt held both physically and and spiritually.

Part of good facilitation is proper dosing, it is knowing how trauma works. So in if all of these things are are there, then it's okay to go through experiences that in the moment you might regret having have decided to do that because I have not seen any person go through an experience that they weren't ready for in the in that set of conditions. I have to say, I'm not saying if you drink Medicine in any condition that then you will for sure come out of there feeling better than than how you came. But I am saying that there is a very, very, very high likelihood of that happening if the facilitation is is proper.

So, in a way, it is, yeah, as you said, it's like forcing with permission because normally you would backtrack. If you could some people in those moments, if they could press a button and be like, okay, aboard, let's cancel what's going on. But this is a way of keeping escaping from something that the medicine is taking you towards. And because you have in a way no option, the only way out is through, when you come on the other side, what you feel is that you've done it.

So, one of the things that I tell people is that the medicine will help you realize that your capacity to hold what's going on inside you is actually much bigger than what you believe it is. And the only way to know that is not for somebody to tell you, is for you to experience it, to have to go through it and come out out of the other side feeling strong and feeling proud of yourself and feeling that you could that you did it and feeling, oh my God, actually, I am much stronger than what I thought I was. Because I always had this capacity. The only thing that I needed was for somebody to assist me in in getting there.

So, how do you know that how do you know I knew I was I've been thinking about medicine, I've been thinking about taking an Medicine journey. And again, for me it was like, oh, I'm going to go to South America and and trek into the into the Amazon to do this and it's not that anymore. But I knew I was called to do it. I'm very in tune with what my heart and what my soul is calling for, but most people aren't.

How do you know this is for you? How do you know it's it's time to go take a journey like this? Also, great question. I'm loving your questions today, Mark.

I'm going to answer your question in a second. I first want to say I'm going to take a the advantage that you you named the Peru Peru or the Amazon jungle to make a quick comment about that, which is I do not recommend for people who are new to this to do it in Peru. And the reason why I wanted to make this comment before answering your question is because it is a very common misconception where people think that the only way and some people tell this to their friends, some facilitators say this, depends on each person, right? But there is the word is going around that the only way to do this or that the only proper way to do it is in the jungle.

And I would say that is not the case, especially for new people who have been born and raised in the West. We could go on a whole rabbit hole about why is that. I don't like making statements without explaining because people are going to say, well, where did you get that from? And I can promise you, there's a lot of reasoning behind it and a lot of seeing and seeing people go through it.

I will tell you everybody's relieved. They nobody nobody cares. Everybody's like, oh, I don't have to go to the jungle. That's good.

No explanation necessary. Yeah. We we can leave it there for now. I actually one of the videos that I recorded, I have not released yet is about that, where I explain it in detail why I don't think that is the best thing for people doing this for the first time or maybe even the first few times.

So with that being said, can you repeat the question one more time? So the question is, how do you know, how do you know it's time to go do this? To to be to go on to go on a medicine journey. Whatever the medicine is, how do you know that it's not therapy, it's not what you've been doing, it's time to go do this.

Okay. So, I would say the first thing that shows up as I hear that question is when you hear about this, is there something itching inside you, right? Some people call that feeling the call, where it's like, some people will just completely brush it off or be like, no way on earth I'm doing that, right? But some people be like, that sounds weird, but there's they say it with that kind of like cat-like curiosity, right?

Where it's like, I don't want to see, but I'm going to look that way. Kind of kind of way. So, I would say that is one way of knowing that there might be there that there might be something there for you. Another is if you feel that you have come to a place in your life where you are ready for change and that there is something that needs to be released or that something just, you know, when people are like, okay, I can't keep going the way I'm going anymore.

Either I can't get rid of addictions I tried to get rid of or I achieved everything that I proposed myself to do or to get or to succeed in and I'm still feeling some some something empty inside. Do I need another Ferrari? Do I need another house? Like what's going on?

Why why? What's going on? So, when people start feeling that something is off, if they feel that they would like to resolve that and that they are ready for it, this is a great option. Again, as long as it is properly facilitated.

And I unfortunately have to say this a lot because it is very common for that not to be the case. I wish so badly that this wouldn't be the case. Uh, and partially of why I'm finally coming out, as you said in your introduction, is to start giving out the information that is missing out there on all of these topics. So, I would say the short answer is, if you're ready for change, if you feel something's off, if you're ready to move forward in your life or something is itching within you when you hear this, this could be the right time.

Nice. This is the Rising Leader podcast. We we talk about business and leadership and and relationships with people at work and and that kind of thing. And the reason I wanted to have you on and talk about this topic is because the only way to become an effective leader, to become a mature leader, to become a partner in a business or even in your in your romantic relationship is to do the deep work.

I was having a I was taking a walk with a neighbor and he's at a crossroads in in his life. And he's he's at he's at his midlife crisis. And I said, listen, dude, I'm so sorry, but you only have two choices. He's what are they?

I said, you can either medicate, which is trade in your partner for someone else, go buy something, go start drinking, go gambling, go have fun, go, but keep just keep ahead of that unease that you're feeling inside, right? And keep stuffing it down, keep running away from it and keep medicating or face it and do the deep work. I'm like, you only have two choices. And that midlife crisis always ends up in either a relationship breakdown, a health breakdown or a financial breakdown.

So, this this is one of those things where I watch people bring their childhood traumas, bring those things that haven't been worked out in therapy that disrupt their careers, that disrupt your their home life. And I've watched over and over and over people who have been on antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications who have not been able to get healing in other places, get healing with this and with you. And when I tell my story, I can't I can't believe how many people I've sent on these journeys both with you and they found their own way because of what because of the transformation I've seen. So, when we when we talk about like in your in in your bio and in your in your on your website, you talk about leadership training, you talk about team building, you talk about you bringing this into into that world.

How are you bringing this into the world? How are you affecting those people? So, I would say probably the best the best way to answer to that is by meeting people exactly where they are at. And if you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, you don't want somebody who has no idea of what that feels like, right?

You don't want somebody who will not relate to you because there's going to be a part of you that's going to stay closed to that. You you also talked about trust that you don't trust that many people. And the only way in which you are going to be able to open yourself up fully, uh, or as maybe as as much as you're ready for, right? Is the a better way to say that is to realize the full potential of your readiness of how uh much you can open uh in that moment, you need to trust.

And in order to trust, you need to relate. And that's why I talk so much about relatability. And for me it was a big journey of anybody who's an atheist or the most spiritual person or a car mechanic or a CEO for them to feel that I understand what it feels like to be them. And so, why am I bringing this idea of executive coaching and and executive team building in in my website is because in the world of medicine, the most common thread, I would say is that facilitators will try to appeal to those who are already very spiritual.

Whatever that means. That's a very broad term, terminology, but it's kind of like, okay, the universe is you, you are the universe experiencing yourself, everything is love, everything is gratitude, this, that. And the attitude that I continuously find is that if you are already believing that, then great. And if you are not believing that, then oh well.

I'm sorry, kind of thing. And there is no, oh, let's see where you are at. And rather than me telling you that you are the universe experiencing itself, let me meet you where you're at so that you get to experience that if that's what you are meant to experience. Because maybe that is not your next step in healing.

So, every person will eventually, if they do enough healing, will eventually get all of these like peak aha moments and peak experiences where they do feel as part of everything and part of one. But that doesn't mean that they must experience it first or that that is the next thing that they need to experience in order to heal. Some people in order to heal, they need to first forgive their mother. But some other people might need to first experience peace for the first time.

And some others might need to experience hell so that they can release it. And it's just so, I would say, irresponsible to tell people what is it that they should experience, um, when first of all, you don't know and second, it's so much easier to just see where the person is at and meet them there. And there's something that I always say, which is that in order for and I understand that a lot of people do that partially out of the good intention of, oh, I experienced the me being the whole universe. I want you to experience that, right?

Is there's there's something that is well-intentioned about it. That is not anything I have said to anybody about any journeys ever. That's not been my experience. Like like the whole astral projection and I'm one with the universe.

I've had that stone cold sober. But no, and for me, like I went, one of the reasons I went was because I had already felt one with the universe. I had already let Mark go and had had my spiritual experience. But it wasn't abiding.

It wasn't constant. I was going in and out and up and down and trying to integrate the human mark with the spiritual mark and all this stuff. And I thought this would be a lovely step on my journey to knowing the universe. I thought this would be me being one with God.

Right. Fine. But that's why I went. What I got was not only down to some deep trauma and and and transformation that for me was hellacious, but afterwards, what I what I walked away with was I was so much more Mark.

I was so much more in the world. And like I said, I didn't get a spiritual awakening from Medicine. I got the Rising Leader program. I got, this is where you're going to take your business next.

Right. So, so for for me, like it is a leadership. It is a life skill. It is a relationship healing thing.

Can I tell you what I why I think this has happened in your case? Sure. In your case? I could be wrong, but I believe that the reason why this has happened is because one of the ways in which Ihuasca helps people heal is by putting them closer to their path of their purpose.

And so, for some people, in order to get closer to their purpose, they first need to do things that I already mentioned, like forgiving somebody or letting go of their childhood or something else. That was not specifically your case. In your case, it was to actually get in touch with the things that you are already good at, that are already in there and just unlocking them so that they can flourish. And now you are helping people become leaders, rising leaders, right?

And you are and this is probably, I assume, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I assume that this is a very fulfilling thing for you, that doing this feels good in your heart, feels beyond that, feels like I am meant for this. This is when I do this, a part of me just shines and and and and expresses itself as a form of a unique gift that it is only to you it is only yours. It is my flavor. It's clicked it I feel clicked in, right?

To to who I'm supposed to be, what I'm supposed to be doing, like whatever that is, it all it all converge. And and I have to say, I don't even like it. Like I I didn't want to do this. This wasn't my idea to become the leadership guy.

Like I did not but it but it feels so natural that I that I'm a yes to it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, and that, I always talk about healing. So, you might be like, okay, so maybe not you, but maybe your audience, might be like, okay, so how is it healing to all of a sudden get a a leadership program out of the experience?

And because one might think, oh, healing means to get rid of an addiction or to get rid of trauma or to process an emotion, right? And as I said, that could be somebody a lot of people's next step into healing. Now, in your case, doing something that feels natural can bring a specific form of experience about life where you wake up every day excited, where you just feel good being who you are and doing what you're doing. And that by itself is a healing experience.

So, if you keep doing medicine or any form of healing work, eventually you will get into all of the things that for some other people, that might be their next step. And for you, it was a 10th step. And for you, this was maybe the next step. And for somebody else, getting a program of on what to offer than some others will be their 20th step, right?

So, and there is no, oh, I'm ahead of you. Is that is my specific next step. What there is is people who have done a lot of those steps. There's some people who have done 50 steps in their healing journey and some people who are just starting it.

But whatever it is, I always like to say to people, is it is it's very important not to compare where you're at in your healing journey. As long as you started and you start walking that path, every day will feel, you will feel a little bit closer to a person that would wake up feeling alive and feeling happy to be who they are. And I think I just wanted to finish answering your question. So, this whole thing about leadership, coaching and um, executive team building and all of that is that where I was going with everything that I was saying is that most settings are curated for people that are spiritual already.

And if somebody comes and is an executive, they the space might not be curated for them and they might not open up because they don't trust it fully, because they don't relate. And so, the full potential of the of how much they are ready to open might not realize, might not be might not be fully materialized. If they are ready to open, let's say 70% and that's as much as you're ready, then if you end in a in a setting where you can fully relate and trust, then you will open 70%. But if you end up in one that you don't, you might open 20%, even though you were ready for more.

And what I am bringing, realizing that this is going on in most settings is for people who are in leadership roles to feel that they can trust in the same way that you trusted so that they can fully open as much as they are ready for. And for me that's important because people who are in leadership roles, they take they make decisions that affect a lot of people, right? So, if we can make people who are in leadership positions make decisions that are closer to what it is really true to their hearts, they will affect people from that place in a way that will create a beautiful impact. And I've seen it happen and I want more of that.

I I've I've sent executives, people who have no interest or no no thought of this in their realm. I've sent them to you and they have come back transformed. Right? Again, I would send my children to you because I trust you and I trust the space that you create.

I'm curious. What do you care about? Like, why do why do this? Why put your like why put yourself out this way?

Why I've watched you just put yourself out to the edge of your capacity. Why do this? Why? What do you care?

Such great questions. I love it. I I have a very simple answer and it is that it is what's coming out of me. And it feels natural to me.

I'm literally quoting you. But it is true. I also hated it. I didn't like it at the beginning.

I was like, why am I doing this? Especially at first when when I just I wasn't as comfortable in those spaces or I would get a at the very beginning, every case was a new case, right? The first executive was the the first executive. I didn't really know what it felt like to be that person.

Or the first person that came clean out of heroin for three days for the first time. I didn't know what that felt like. I didn't know anything. And I was really uncomfortable all the time.

I was like, why am I doing this? Stop it. Stop it. There's so many other paths for you.

And it just it it I I couldn't stop it. It's almost like it was happening for me, but also it was very reinforcing that it was it was the right path. And at this point, I am stepping away from holding ceremonies slowly. My intention is to do less and less and actually I've been materializing that.

I am doing less and less when it comes to holding space directly for people. But what a decade of holding these ceremonies has given me is it has gifted me such a beautiful understanding of how the human mind works, how trauma works, how it happens, how it can be mitigated, how we can heal it. And the beautiful thing for those listening who are like, oh, well, I I want to heal, but I don't want to do a medicine or how do I find the right facilitator or whatever it is. Like that's a very limiting factor.

Is that healing is not dependent on medicine. And because of that, because it's not dependent on medicine, there and it's dependent on practices and uh things that people can do in their own homes. I realized that I can bring those to the world because I know what those things are. I can help people heal themselves uh by giving them the right practices.

And so, that is available for anybody who has access to the internet today, I would say. And so, if you ask me, why did you keep doing this, was because I couldn't stop it, because it felt I didn't like it, but it also felt natural, kind of like what you said. But today, a few a few years later, I would say it was a stepping stone in my path to understand how to heal without plants so that I can bring as much of it as I can to the world because literally every single person, yes, you, whatever you're at, listening to this, yes, you also need healing and that is nothing to be ashamed of. It is true for every person, including me, who have done years of healing.

I still need to do a lot of healing and everybody. And the more we do that, the more we feel, the the better we feel every day and the better the people around us feel, because we treat them better. They start treating us better, they start treating other people better. And we slowly start creating a world hopefully better than the one that we received from our ancestors to live to our kids and to live within ourselves too.

Nice. And I will say I made a lot more money after my first retreat to you. Yeah, it can happen. So, so finally there is there is financial there is financial gain there too.

So where now that now that you're everywhere in the world, if people want more of you, if they want to go down the rabbit hole, videos of you, if they want to get contact you to work with you, where can they find you? So, yes, I'm I'm out. Last time I was like, okay, thank you for enjoying the podcast. Now you can find me on pretty much every every social platform.

I would say the main one, the one in which I intend to use uh in order to give this information out and away about how to heal yourself. I'm using YouTube as my main platform. And so you can go to YouTube and then find me at Yvon Chokran, which if you want, I can spell that for those I'm sure nobody would. We're going to put the links.

We're going to put the links in the uh in the show notes so they can just click on it. Yeah, you can just click on it. I have a website too where I talk about all the things that I do and my my story and my background. And then every other social network as well.

It's it's so good to see you out in the world. It's so good to open up my YouTube or open up my Instagram and see your face. It means the world to me. I'm so glad you and I crossed paths.

My life has changed. So many other lives have changed because you and I met. Thanks for being here and thanks for sharing your story. Thank you so much, Mark.

I really appreciate helping you helping expand this out into the world. I also appreciate your support that I have felt since day one. It means also a lot to me and I always have a blast talking to you. Even that time, I don't know, a few months ago when you just called me out of the blue and you were like, I'm having a hard time.

I loved it. I love we talked for 20 minutes and I would have that. You were in like Croatia or something. Yeah, I was somewhere.

I remember I was in a car. There was no reception or something, but I I loved it. I love your energy and what you're bringing into the world is beautiful and your healing has created, for example, one of the many things, not only helping people become leaders, but also is helping expand more of this healing through this podcast today as well. So, every person doing healing has such an incredible, I would say, ripple effect into what they bring to the world.

So, thank you so much for supporting me, for giving me a space to for people to hear my what I have to say to amplify my voice and what I'm trying to bring into the world. Nice. This is this is a joy. Now, my last conversation with Yvon was on the Mastering Overwhelm workshop.

We're going to we went into specific medicines, we went into specific healing modalities. We had another conversation about marijuana. That's again, I I can't believe the reach of those conversations without even using his name. We're going to put the links in the show notes so that you can go listen to those conversations also.

If you have any questions, please send me a note, send Yvon a note and I I just wish you lots of love and healing on your journey. That's why we're here and that's why I do this podcast. That's why I do the work that I do. Leadership is great, money's great, success is great, but it's it's living the lives that we say we want to live that's really important.

I love you a ton. Have a great rest of the day. Thank you for joining today's conversation. If you got value, please share the episode, give us a thumbs up, write us a review.

And if there's a topic you'd like us to cover or a question that you have, send them my way. Look forward to connecting on the next episode of the Rising Leader podcast.