The Séance

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Ah, good day everybody. Welcome to the Conscious Radio Networks, The Seance Before the Veil. I'm your host, Reverend Dr. Paul Meccas. If this is your first

time, please kick, click, subscribe, like, share, comment, and also don't forget to follow wherever you listen to your podcast. Today, healing trauma, the emotional body. This is an interesting bio and very rarely do I I get long ones. At first when I saw this one, this was fairly long, but I'm like, "This is worth reading." Definitely worth reading

all the way through. So, um, today joining us, a renowned thought leader and inspirational speaker who bridges the gap between science and spirituality to make healing accessible to everyone. Born and raised in Argentina, he lived he studied engineering and at the National Technological University of Buenos and taught both mathematics and chemistry. He began his research in western psychology, healing practices and medicine work studying under both western oriented practitioners and traditional shamans within the Amazon jungle. He developed his own healing

method methodology method methodology which brings together ancient traditions in western psychology with over 10 years of experience. He's led 500 plus ceremonies and has guided more than 10,000 people through transformative journeys using a grounded and relatable approach. Is known he's known for making complex concepts easy to understand, helping people from all backgrounds start to start or deepen their healing process, whether through medicine or practical psychology. His insights empower listeners to lead more fulfilled and joyful lives. Let's welcome to the

seance for the first time Ivon Chakron. Welcome brother. Thank you so much. I appreciate being here very much. You are

very welcome. Thank you for having me. Very welcome. Humbled when I saw when I saw uh your profile and uh your work at uh I I'm honored to have you on the show. I've been through some ceremonies

myself in the past uh recent past um and have probably uh studied uh some similar stuff that that you have. I'm not good in mathematics but I appreciate it and chemistry. It's not uncommon for people to uh that are very deep into this work for math to not be their thing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm more artistic.

Yeah. Um so this this uh shamanic journey take us back in time briefly and and share um share that with us how that started. Yeah. Um I will want to summarize this part mostly because I think we have so many great things to talk about. I don't necessarily want to

focus it on me. Um but also some context is important. Uh I was an atheist and uh I grew up extremely scientific and skeptical as uh my bio kind of uh allures to when it comes to math and science and all of that. Um both parents atheists um and um no no spiritual practices at all. And

I would say I had a fairly good childhood. Um I I know I had a fairly good childhood. So growing up I also wasn't necessarily thinking that I needed to heal some deep trauma or anything like that. I was also against mindaltering substances. So the fact

that I am a medicine facilitator today is the most if you will unlikely outcome for that kind of background uh for all the reasons people who go to uh medicine tend to have a spiritual tendency at the very least or much more than that. Um maybe it's more than just a tendency. Uh which is why I was saying it's not uncommon to not like math if you're in this world. Yeah. But uh

despite being against mindaltering substances based on the ways in which my parents educated me and uh and all my skepticism and all of that, one day I found myself in an Iawaska ceremony with uh because I trusted a friend and that was the most transformative night of my life. and in all of the ways in which I would have never expected it. And so I became very much an advocate because what it has done for me, especially not having a quote unquote traumatic childhood um and seeing what it has done for people who have uh who had that. I I realized the power um of these plants, but also how essential it is to start a healing journey. In the moment, I

thought that it was only with plants or that the plants were the way, if you will, or the fastest way. Today, 10 years or a little bit over 10 years later, I realized that that is not the way. And I am or that plants are not the only way. They are a tool. And that if

you confuse the tool with the way, then it is likely that your healing journey is going to actually suffer and go slower. So, uh, I teach that, um, in my ceremonies and I teach that to my students. And part of why I started going into podcasts and I have a YouTube channel and all of that is to kind of demystify the work with plants and anything related to healing and spirituality. And partially is thanks to the fact that as an extheist, I benefit so much from from it. And I know so many

people either are atheists or uh super skeptical or super scienced driven which I resonate with but they need healing too in the same way in which I needed it and didn't know it. So my mission or if you will a consequence of who I who I am ended up becoming bringing all of the healing modalities in a very relatable way like in the way which I wish I would have been talked to when I was in that stage. Um so I think that's maybe for now enough of of the background but how all of this ended up uh coming along. Yeah. Yeah. Um and and you also

mentioned that um you say that uh healing work is one of the most important things that we should all be doing. That's a big really big statement and uh big claim. Why do you believe that? It is a big statement and I uh stand behind those words. But I I give

that statement consciously knowing that it it is a big statement and I would even venture to say that it is the most important thing we could be doing, not even one of the most. Um and I am happy to answer to that question. I would say anything that you that people are prioritizing today that is not their own healing is going against those things that they are prioritizing. So for example, somebody can tell me no more important than healing work is your family or to to prioritize your family or to prioritize your work. And I I am I would venture to

say that is not the case because if you prioritize your family without doing healing work first, the form in which you will prioritize your family is going to be partially wounded driven. And so what seems like a priority ends up hurting those very people that you want to love more or prioritize more. So I am not saying drop everything that you're doing. drop your family to go do healing work. What I'm saying is if you are not

having healing work as one of your main priorities in life, all of the other things are going to suffer. Um so one of the ways in which that plays out is through the cycle in which trauma almost like a airborne disease like a virus or any of the common things that we know that they are contagious ends up transferring from one person to the other and I'm happy to go into examples if if you want. Absolutely. Um. Mhm. So

for example um a mother I'm coming with hypothetical examples as a from the compilation of many cases that I have seen but a mother had a really rough childhood then she has a child she has not done any healing work around her childhood. and the way in which she starts um celebrating the child. Let's say that this mother uh was punished every time that she had a bad grade in school um and she was rewarded every time that she had a good grade. Um there are two likely scenarios. What we

do is either we do the same thing because we have been given the uh belief that that is what is good and what is bad. We have like now a framework for this is what's good. Good grades is good because it's going to make you money. It's going to make you successful in life. Uh and that is good

and bad grades is the opposite of that is bad and you deserve to be punished for it. when you do bad things, bad consequences come to you. Um, and so now the person is in that framework. And when they have a child, if they have not done any hidden work around that specific trauma, for example, they might do the same thing to their child, believing that they are loving them.

When in reality, what seems like love, it is just a transfer of a belief system that has been given to you by parents who have not done healing um themselves. The other scenario is that you do the opposite. You realize how painful that was to never have the chance to have a bad grade and still be loved for who you are. And so you might go the opposite route and tell your child, "Whatever you do is fine. It's all good." I actually

have a little bit of that story myself where my father was too loose with me and in his mind he was being loving. It's like I had a really hard childhood. I really love my son. Therefore, I'm going to give everything to him because I didn't have it. Um, and that is it

sounds and it looks like love, but it is not. What it actually is is a counter reaction to a wound that he has not healed himself. Because a child might need some discipline and eventually if you don't give any discipline, your child might pay for it later on in life. as I know that I have and I am doing a lot of healing work around that like what what was supposedly loving ended up going against me and not because he did it on purpose but because he was not in tune with what I actually needed he was only in tune with his own pain right so now these are subtle examples that make a big difference in a person's life imagine when and we've all heard this people have been uh physically abused by their parents. You know, a father might

hit somebody their child with a belt. We have sexual abuse by parents. We have um emotional abuse. We have so much that is much much worse than what I am talking about. So if what I'm talking about can

create such big impact, imagine things that are even harder. So when you don't do healing work, you're going to act as a unconsciously you're not even aware that you're doing this as a counter reaction for your trauma. When you do healing work, then all of that comes uh uh stops in a way driving your behavior and it becomes easier to get in touch with what the other person needs. whether that is your child, whether that is your partner, your friends, or even somebody who you don't know. Um, so, um, I think the last

thing to finish this question is we're all constantly saying things like, "I wish there would be no worse," or, "I wish people would treat each other better," or, "I wish there would be more kindness um, going around." Um or even things like I wish I wouldn't have these random bursts of anger for quote unquote no apparent reason. Um and all of those are all consequences of unhealed trauma. So if you heal your trauma, it is most it is more likely that you will be kinder to people like because in a way this this is our natural way of being is kindness. It is joy. It is uh light. It

is gratitude. And when we're not experiencing those things, they are a mere consequence of the trauma that we have not healed. And that creates all of the things that I mentioned and even more. Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, I

mean these subtle things the and we all have these subtle things. It seems like it and the way that you explain it because it seems like the most most of the majority of the people that I've that I've known in Iawaska ceremony had big real un they weren't subtle issues and first I mean and by the end of the weekend or by the end of the week you start to you start to know them more and you start to realize you know who they are and the you know the pains and and and how much healing they've gone through and and then I look into myself and I look at myself and I go wow I'm I'm better off than I thought I I was like, "Wow." Um, and now I can see now I can see how healing is very important for everybody as a collective for the world as we all should be focusing in on on healing these subtle things. Um, yes.

Uh, a lot of the issues that are global, um, they are the collective pain just added up together. So when people ask how can we solve these decisions that are global um it it can only be done in my opinion in one way which is to start healing yourself because every every single thing that you have received in terms of wounding as a human being you received it because there is collective pain around. So your parents received it, your teachers received it, your educators like those are super important too. You go to school and you are being told that these are the people who are going to educate you that they are your teachers. So what

seems like a elementary school math teacher is also an educator and is teaching you unconsciously on how to be as a human being and that person is also wounded. And so the way in which you know kids have their teacher that they like and the teacher that they don't and the teacher that they don't like most likely they don't like that teacher because the teacher is not attuned to the needs of those children and that is because they have not done healing themselves. And so as we're growing up, we are from every person, every time anyone yells at us, every person that flips us off in traffic, any form of wounding that it is collective, we receive it and then we grow up with it and then we give it away with whether we want it or not and whether we are unc conscious of it or not. So there's only one way in which you can heal the pain of the world which is the part that has been given to you. That's all you can

do. If I wanted to heal you, Paul, I couldn't do it. Even if I wanted, what I could do is uh help you walk the path of healing um with the things that I have learned. Um and I can in the same way in which somebody can teach you a subject in school like math but cannot um how do you say install that in you have to teach it and then you have to practice you have to learn um it's essential to have somebody to guide us through that because doing healing work even though it is in a way is simple and in another way is really hard if you don't have anyone to guide you through it because it's also a skill. Once you

learn it, it's not that hard. Um, but that is not part of our culture. And so that makes it much harder. The hardest part of doing healing work is not how hard it is to do it, but is that it is not part of our culture. If

healing work would be part of our culture, if it would be something that we give it as much like priority as anything else, if it would be taught in schools properly, then um I think the world would change at a much faster pace in the toward the direction that we all want to see it change. Oh, that would be that would be a real blessing if it was taught. Do you know if there's if if any of this any of these subject matters or modalities are are being taught in any type of schools that don't have to be public schools but any any type of institutions and stuff other than um well it's it's interesting because I'm in the process of um trying to conceive. It hasn't happened yet. So we

started talking about that with my wife and um we have found a few schools that or modalities more than schools that try to do that. Um we have not yet um investigated it all the way but I think there are some if you will oasises here or there in the middle of the desert. Um but for example, one subject that would be to me essential if anyone listening to this somehow is in charge of some part of the education system in some country it's okay like we have to start somewhere right? Um an essential subject would be um emotional intelligence. So,

math, great, essential, important. Um, all of the other ones, great. Also, why are we not teaching emotional intelligence? What does that mean? It

means to understand what an emotion is. to understand the importance of them, to understand how we dismiss them and how much damage that creates, to understand how the healing process um is mostly based on the processing of stuck emotions, why they get stuck. All of this stuff um is essentially if if this would be taught in schools, I I promise you it would be amazing how fast we would start healing because part of the reason why we get wounded, most of the reason why we get wounded is not because of the trauma itself, as much as it is that a trauma creates an emotion that sometimes is hard to process. Not because the emotion is hard to process inherently, but because the environment around it does not support it. So here's

an example. I get grounded by my dad. Getting grounded, by the way, is not necessarily a bad thing. Um, you know, so the problem is that a lot of times when we get grounded, the parent disconnects their heart from us. So in

that moment, they stop loving us. And a father can be like, "No, I'm doing it because it's the right thing. and they need to learn and that is not necessarily false but what could be false is that in that moment in the moment that I'm telling you you're grounded I am I might be very angry and in in that anger there is no love and the child feels that and so the child might experience let's say uh also might might experience anger or might experience sadness about what just happened and maybe the child starts throwing a tantrum or crying and then there is two things that could happen then the trauma hasn't happened yet because there is still a window there for or the the traumatic event is happening but the trauma hasn't happened. The reason why this ends up solidifying as trauma is because most of the reactions tend to be something like, "Oh, uh, don't cry. Go to your

room and stay there." And then maybe the child cries and it's like, "I told you not to cry. Now, uh, the the punishment is worse. It was going to be no ice cream. Now it's no ice cream and no TV

just to say something." Or, "Don't talk to your father like that. Don't throw a tantrum." So what's going on in that moment is that the child is experiencing a strong emotion that is not necessarily a hard emotion to experience. It's just

strong and it's coming out naturally and the parent is creating an environment where that emotion is not welcomed. So when the emotion is not welcomed, we swallowed it. It goes inside of us and that's when the trauma happens. an emotion could not get processed because it was not um there was not the the environment for it was not proper. that

creates a trauma and then sometimes 20 or 30 years later we go to an awesome here. You are please feel free to ex to to to reexperience those emotions that are still in you and a lot of healing happens um then. So why is this not being taught in schools? Well, the answer is very simple. is because

nobody has taught our educators that. So, how can they teach something that they don't know? This is why for me um and I really appreciate being in this podcast to to talk about this publicly is so important is because I believe it's um very close to the solution for a lot of the things that we're always wondering how are we going to get out of the mess that we got ourselves ourselves involved in. Yeah.

Yeah. Uh it it and it's it's intriguing how we use words such as grounding. You know, you're grounded. I mean, look at the word in and of itself, ground. We

use grounding, grounded, grounding in a lot of metaphysical uh aspects and how it's used and what we're actually doing. To me, when when somebody when a child is grounded, it's like, okay, like you said, that energy is being disconnected and now the child now gets to ground themselves in their own energy. Pay attention to your own vibration and focus inward on themselves and reconcile what what's going on, what you what they did. Mhm. So, it's interesting. I love

that that reflection. Yeah. Now you could as a parent promote that behavior by saying something like so if somebody's asking themselves this is stemming off of what you're saying. If somebody's asking themselves well how do you ground your child if it's also needed and it is needed. The child needs

to learn that sometimes certain actions have consequences that are not going to be fun. But not going to be fun does not have to equate uh to not being loved. And as I mentioned, it's not about that you stop loving your child forever. Even if it's for a moment, the child feels that disconnection. So how do you if

somebody is wondering how do I ground my child? You ground your child by saying something like you're grounded because of these reasons. Um, and when the child starts screaming or having the natural reaction to it, you hold the child in whatever is going on and said like this doesn't mean I don't love you. Uh I know this is not fun and this could be an opportunity for you to take and understand what is it that happened and you know of course depending on the ch age of the child on the emotional maturity you might say that and it might not mean anything to the child but I'm not saying that you have to repeat like learn these words and repeat them. This

is more like the if you will energetic exchange. Yeah. Where you're still holding your child in their pain and telling them that um your love for them is not at risk that they are still lovable even if they do something wrong. Um and so that we that creates an environment where the child might go to a room and think about it because they the love of the parent which is essential for a child. It is

one of the most basic if not the most basic human need is not at risk. If that is not at risk then you can think about what what you've done. It probably would happen mostly automatic without you even having to explain this is your time to reflect. that that might not mean much to a child. Um right. So

um that can be that can um facilitate what you just talked about about the child reflecting and and grounding in their own energy. But if they feel that your love toward them is at risk. Yeah. They might actually get more ungrounded in a way. They might go to a room and be

like what's going on? What are I feel? I can't really express it. My dad doesn't love me. And then just like

disconnection. Yeah. They'll end and depending on their age, you'll end up rebelling and you know, who knows, run away from home, blah blah blah. And yeah, yeah, that we've know those stories, hear them on the news, for sure. Um, how how does plant

medicine play a a role in uh people's healing? And um is it possible to do the healing without plants? Beautiful question. It is possible to do it without plants. Thank God. Yeah.

Because the world needs a lot of healing and the plants as I mentioned first it would be very hard for 7 billion people to be drinking um medicine right now at the same time. Yeah. Um so there's a that uh if you will logistical issue u but also another I think beautiful thing about healing being independent of the plants is just that that it is independent of the plants. And so if a plant makes you dependent on it for your healing, is it really a medicine? Right? Like it's the same as

ibuprofen. If if you have, let's say, um an issue in your neck and you get headaches every day, you take ibuprofen, it helps you cope. Is that really a medicine? No, it's not. Because medicine, even the

word assumes healing, assumes like the problem is gone. You take ibuprofen, your neck, if it's misaligned, it's going to continue staying misaligned, you're just going to depend on it so that you don't feel the pain. So, um, if there would be something that would make the neck realign and then the pain goes away, that is the actual healing part. And that could be um that could be many things. It could be somebody who works

on your neck or it could be who knows it could be an an array of different things. Yeah. So for a medicine to be a medicine in a way it must make you independent of of the medicine itself. Mhm. The same as me

as a teacher. If you if I were to be your teacher or whoever wants to be anyone's teacher, um the idea would be for the student to eventually be independent of the teacher and be able to do whatever the teacher has taught whether that is healing uh something in university or how to whatever that is a craft uh being a locksmith whatever that is. Yeah. Yeah. Now if the teacher is like come to

me and I'll do I'll do that thing that you want to learn all the time then the person doesn't learn. That's not really a teacher. The same happens with medicine. So yes the plants um are there as teachers and as medicines um because they teach us how to do healing work. And so how do plants play

a part is by for example you have some let's say somebody's listening to this and they're like okay great I want to start my healing journey right now and I heard that a big part of it is to process and process the emotions um okay how do I process them where do I start and then maybe they're like okay hi Ivan like can you help me process these emotions and like sure let's go like let's let's start doing a meditation let's start bringing them up And one thing that I've noticed is that if the trauma was deep enough, the person might have no access at all to those emotions. So they're like, "How can we process something that I don't have access to?" Um, and a lot of times not having access also means that you don't even know that they are there. So maybe they're like, "What do I have to process? Is it there? Maybe I guess I

believe you, but you know, it's like this no man's land." Yeah. Um, so what do the plants do? You drink them and they assist in the bringing up of whatever it needs to be processed. And

um that's why they are such great tools. They accelerate our healing by helping us reach into places that are either hard to reach or impossible without them. in the same way in which you can make a house without modern tools, but it's probably not going to be as uh solid. You're probably not going to do it as fast. You and there's certain type

of houses that you might not ever be able to build. You might be able to build a basic one, but not a skyscraper. And this is the same thing. You might be able to process certain emotions without plants, but if you are going to go into really really deep uh within your you know the deepest part of your trauma, plants assist in bringing that up.

Plants are not the only way by the way. Breath work, meditation, there's um many other modalities. It happens that plants are a very effective one. uh they are very very efficient. Um you might get a

plumber who's never meditated in their life and that they might feel like very uh uh resistant to meditation or they may even try and fail and be like this is not for me. What am I doing here sitting with my eyes closed? Um right. So it is right now it feels like now I might move a little bit into the esoteric part of of life but I feel that you can call it God, you can call it the universe, you can call it life uh however you want to call it but that it is bringing to us um psychedelic plans and um in mass because this is what we need in this moment because if we acceler erate our healing in in a way that it feels to me that it is just very needed. If we

don't act fast, we are going to hurt ourselves maybe beyond a point of no return. So these plants are here not to heal us but to accelerate our own healing by teaching us how to do it. So um and by allowing the what we would call the fruit that it is hanging really high in the tree, it kind of lowers it. so that you can go pick it and then uh start your healing journey. Yeah. Yeah.

In a sense like you said that they're tools. Plants are tools in in the toolbox in nature's toolbox. We just got to choose the right one. You know, how do how do you want to build how do you want to build this relationship with the universe and yourself and and that plant is that particular tool into that next uh the next journey.

Mhm. And think about how much we depend on plants, right? People are like, I shouldn't depend depend on a plant for my healing. I was like, well, you depend on a plant for your air. You depend on a

plant for your food. You depend on a plant to feed the animals that you eat. You depend on a plant for literally everything. For the bees to even be a thing and the whole biology to be connected and you no plants, you depend on plants. you're there's no uh question

about it. You and people nowadays are so obsessed with like well broccoli has enough vitamin A. This other one kale has like great. So everyone's super focused in how are these plants good for my body. Now we are focusing so much in

that which I focus on that too. I'm so all in for healing healthy lifestyle. But if who said that plants are only good for our bodies? There's also plants that are good for our minds because as much as our bodies need nourishment and healing, plants are healing. Our minds

need nourishment and healing too. And I like I like calling it God. It's not the religious God. It's not the Christian God. It's not the God we beard. I like

the everything. Yeah. But these plants are there available for us. Why would they be there? As for now, I have not

seen anything in nature that doesn't that is not so in connection and um align with everything else. I have not seen nature do anything for no reason. Um yeah, the more I investigate this, so why would these plants be there if it's not to help us with something as essential as healing our mind? Yeah, there plants are so inclusive. it it's

an in essential part of the ecosystem and we as we get more involved in technology and in the future it's like it's people are forgetting the importance of plants it's like it's like come on man it just very very essential but before we uh before we move a little further is um for those who are watching can see your your website down uh scrolling on the bottom. But how can people find you? So my website.com is one of them. Um and then

you can get in touch with me there. Um I um offer uh both um what we've been talking about as well as one-on-one coaching sessions on Zoom. Um that's a little bit of uh somewhat similar of psychology um therapy but with everything that I've learned uh as a medicine facilitator. So it's a little bit of a combination of many modalities. Um, a lot of people have

told me that the those sessions have been more useful to them than uh classic therapy. I have a lot of therapists that come, so I have nothing against therapy. I think it's essential as well. Um, so that's one of the things. And the other

part that I'd like to advertise is not necessarily because I will do make anything out of it or money or anything. um is because as we mentioned plants are not the only way to heal. There's other ways to to to healing. Um and my mission or one of them is to bring as much healing as I can to the world. And I know that using

plants is not going to be like that. But I can talk about it and help people get inspired to start their healing journey. And so that's why I started my YouTube channel which I uh would encourage people to visit which is youtube.com I think it's first at Ivanchakran um and there I every week I release a video on how to process an emotion what fear is um and new ways of I talk about medicine I talk about I respond questions that people ask um so there's and I even have a podcast in in that channel too and there's all related to to healing work. So, um I've been

receiving good feedback about it. So, I I hope that anyone who goes there will will enjoy it because it's made with a lot of love. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really

it's a it's a cool website. I like it. And they can find you on uh Facebook, Instagram. Um yeah, all of the socials.

Uh unfortunately, my name is not very common. So, um, if I would be, uh, uh, uh, I don't know, Paul Johnson, probably my socials wouldn't be that, but, uh, I I'm lucky enough that all my socials are at Ivanchak. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, is there anything new coming down um, that people can look forward to? You got any um, you traveling? you doing some special uh in-person uh remote uh remote work uh coming up in a new year. Um so I serve in ceremony and I used to serve every week somewhere. I uh for

many years I've been in an airplane almost every week going from city to city, country to country. Uh I got a little bit burnt out of back schedule and being jetlagged. Yeah. Um so uh my priorities are shifting a little bit. I

am more focused on bringing healing more widely with uh my YouTube channel with podcast with live conferences and stuff like that. But I still serve in ceremony once a quarter um approximately. So um if anybody mostly in the US but I do travel to Europe and um so if anyone is interested they can um try to hit me up and I will give them um a little bit more information. I much rather um keep that one by on a one by one cases. Yeah

absolutely. Yeah. Um wow. Um so be before before we go um what what do you have as a takeaway for our for our audience today?

Um meaning as a summary of what we've been saying either as a summary or kind of like a words of wisdom. I mean we that was all words of wisdom but kind of like a Yeah. Mhm. a very important um let me see I'll take if you don't mind I'll take a few seconds to see all right what wants to come

[Music] through what's coming through is I have noticed a lot of hopelessness as part of the veil of our society and it is very very understandable why um when we look at the state of the world I think we can all agree that it is very far from what our hearts want it to be. Yeah. And I want you to know if you're listening to this that your hopelessness is granted and that it is okay to feel hopeless and sad and all of the other things that might arise from it. And I go through those things myself too as much as I can talk about it and how much healing work I've done for myself. Yet, I also know that

hopelessness is a natural reaction um to the situation we're in, but is not something that we necessarily have to succumb to because the more the harder things are, the more that I see people's hearts come through to go and assist each other. And in a way the darker the darkest place in the world is uh the more the space it gives for a very dim light to shine stronger. And I see that happening. I see it uh when there is a catastrophe. How many people

go there to assist and donate their time and um or when a friend that you might not have cared for as much goes into crisis. how a lot of times all of that is left behind just to go and give a hand. And so yes, there is a lot there's there's a good reason to feel hopeless um about and at the same time there is hope and the hope starts with um people doing healing work. Everything that we are afraid that we are never going to achieve we have not been taught that healing is the solution for that. So if

we start looking for solutions um it's going to be really really hard to find it but I feel not necessarily that I found it but that at the very least we are going to move in the right direction and end up finding the solution from when we are operating from a more healed place. So even if healing work is not the solution for all the problems which I am not sure it could very well be at the very least it will clear the fog it helps clear the fog out so that the solutions start emerging naturally. So the more hopeless you feel that's a bigger call um for you to start doing your part which is the only thing you can do which is to start healing. people around you will see it and they will get inspired and they will want to do what you're doing and you are going to help others heal with your own healing just by being your own healed version without even having to ask for it people are going to see it and want the same thing that you're doing. So your healed version

without you having to do anything just being you um a more healed version of yourself it already kickstarts a beautiful chain reaction of healing work that it is going to bring upon the world that we might sometimes feel hopeless about. Yeah. Yeah. Very well said. Very well

said, brother. Absolutely. you. Thank you so much for giving space for this kind of um content to be out. There's so much

content that is just useless and this I feel like is a lot of what we really need. So I really appreciate you giving space for this Paul. You're very welcome. That's what this space is for specifically and all about this.

It's all about healing looking inward and he healing it healing the world. That's one one one body, one soul at a time until we can get the whole and until we can get the collective. Mhm. So, but yeah. Yeah. Blessings, brother.

Blessings, brother. Thank you so much for joining us today. And for those who are are trying to find you, it's um Ivanch, which will be that'll be in the show notes. For those who are listening, just look in the show notes and your website will be there. The link to it.

Um reach out to him. send them, you know, if you got any questions, you know, just uh definitely definitely I'd be happy to to answer. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Ivonne, blessings,

brother. You have a wonderful rest of the the day, evening, and uh rest of the week. Actually, it's the end of the week here. So, same to you. I appreciate it. You are

very welcome. Thank you everybody for watching Before the Veil and until next time, we'll see you then. [Music]

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